Mexico-January

[CHD]

Just to get you Mexico hunters a little excited, I am acquainted with a gentleman who harvested a super duper buck in December. It grosses 123 B & C and nets 113 and change, typical. It has five inlines plus eyeguard on one side (four inlines plus eyeguard on the other), which is rare for Coues. I'm sorry I can't post his pic since I don't have his permission.

 

Good luck to all you Mexico hunters!

 

Chris Darnell

[coueshunter]

I am on pins and needles. I cant wait till this next work week is over and I leave. Today I am cleaning the truck out so there is not a shell left so I dont have any problems down there. The rut should be going full swing and I hope I get some great pictures....................Allen.........

[CouesWhitetail]

Good luck Allen! Hope you get some great pictures and a great buck.

 

And good luck to everyone else who is going to Mexico this year!

 

Amanda

[Guest cold zero]

came back jan 6, 04 from my second trip to mexico, sonora. had a blast. took what the outfitter thinks is a 100 .sc.i. class buck. very hot conditions, lucky to get it.

 

now that i saw what kind of terrain coes deer live in, i now know that the first outfitter just ripped me off and took my $. be careful out there.

 

i like this web site. i was turned on to it by coues from the accurate reloading forum.

 

i have all the measurements for my buck, if someone knows how to add them up to get a score and does not mind helping score it, hit me offline at psy777@aol.com. this was a very symetrical deer.

 

i will be going back next jan. what is the best week to hunt these deer, during the rut?

 

i used the meindls and as always they did a good job and did not squeak. excellent boots.

 

cold zero

[CB1]

Cold Zero, who was the outfitter that ripped you off, and what did you pay?..so we can all be carefull thanks and congrats on what sounds like a nice buck....BH

[Guest Ernesto C]

Hey cold zero,give us the good news and the bad news if you dont mind please.

 

Good news:share your story and pictures.

 

Bad news: How did you get ripped off?

 

Thank you for your comment of this forum.

 

And this is for anybody out there,before going out coues hunting or if you have a question about coues ask the EXPERTS of CWT.COM

 

God bless you all. Ernesto C.

[Guest cold zero]

cb1 and ernesto c.;

 

this was my first post on this web site and the speedy replies and Q:'s make me feel welcome. thank you.

 

i still need someone to help me with the addition of the measurements.

 

as for the story..... i actually got ripped off twice by 2 different outfitters.

 

the first time happened in 2000. my friend and i bought 2 hunts from alex ramoz. i paid $8,500 total, $5,500 for mule deer + $2,500 for couses and $500 paperwork. my friend paid the $5,500 + $500.

 

the trip was a disaster. this was sonora, i forget the town. the beautiful ranch house accomodations....no heat , no running water, no flush toilet u just used it anyway, no sheets on the bed and we did not bring sleeping bags, we weren't told to. i have a great picture of my friend sleeping with all his clothes on and his hand on his loaded rilfe next to the bed. it went down to 0 at night. food: this was the only trip i ever went on that food was not plentiful enough.

 

thats the good news, after the ranch was raided for the drug growing operation actively going on there by the mexican army and the federalis. we were stopped on the ranch by the federalis and i had an m4 stuck in my ribs and my friend had an m9 in his ear. i refused to give up my gun and the situation got very intense for a few minutes. some underware needed changing after this.

 

that night my friend who had not seen any kind of deer in 4 days of hunting no longer felt safe and left. along with the other 2 guys in camp who had not seen anything either. the concensus was that this ranch was completely shot out.

 

the next day, or the second to last day of the hunt i had decided not to throw in the towel. mainly due to the bigg $ i had spent. on the second to last day of the hunt, i wounded a 185 s.c.i. (top 50) mule deer. we tracked him 10 miles thru the desert and eventually finished him off the next morning. i have it on video. i beleive i shot the only deer on the ranch that just happened to be a big one. as a group on the whole we did terrible. the guides told me that there weren't and coues deer even on the ranch. now i understand why after my most recent trip. this was flat desert terrain, not coues deer type of terrain.

 

since i wanted to shoot the deer slam and still needed the coues deer. a couple of years later some of the sting had worn off and i booked another hunt with chiauhua outfitters, alex ortiz.

 

well, he would not takeme on the trip and he kept my $ along with at least 5 others guys $. see the may, 2004 issue of the hunt report. alex also had me buy 3 airline tickets in a 3 week time frame between x mas 2002 and 17 jan, 2003. the 3 tickets cost another $2,200. would have been better off if he had just been up front about robbing me then i would have save at least 2 airline tickets. by the way, when u buy heavily restricted tickets and cancel less than 24 hrs in advance, these are use it or lose it tickets. an expensive debacle.

 

i assembled all my paperwork/receipts/telephone records and filed a complaint and ethics violation with s.c.i.. after many phone calls and letters 9 mos. lates sc.i. reluctantly expelled alex from the club. this was only after i contacted them and told tem of the article in the upcoming hunt report article would state that s.c.i. had failed to throw him out. less tha 1 week later i got a letter saying they had expelled him.

 

i understand now, he is supposed to be in the drug business in mexico.

 

anyone with any questions can hit me offline if they wish.

 

that covers the bad news.

 

cold zero

 

i like it here.

thanks for the input and i think u guys are the experts and i may take u up on some advice in the future.

[CB1]

Wow, thats quite a story...thank you for taking the time to write that out..i've been to mexico 4 times deer hunting and never had any problems with anything and outside of my first trip with an american outfitter we have been doing the other trips our selves through a mexican outfitter...i'd go to mexico every year if i could....those guys really ripped you off, need to put them out of business.BH

[Guest Ernesto C]

Cold zero,there is several members on this web sigth that will help you with the scoring of your buck but I believe they are hunting in Mexico rigth now,also Amanda is an official B&C scorer she is also hunting in Mexico,you can email her and she will be more than happy to help you when she gets back.

 

Thank you for that info. you give us on those "outfitter want to be". I believe we "hunters" must do some really good research when hiring outfitters before hiring them.

 

After reading Cold Zero story here is something we should always ask:

 

=What type of camp I will be camping?

 

=How about food and cooking?

 

=What game do you hunt? coues and/or mule deer? Is ther more mule deer than coues deer in this area? If an area holds more muleys than coues maybe the area then is not good for coues if you are after one.

 

=How many hunters and how many guides will be per hunter?

 

=Do you or your guides know this area?have you or your guides have done some pre-scouting before this hunt? (I know a guy that was hired as a guide whitout knowing the area;you just take him to the mountains he was told).

 

=How long your guides are worked for you?

 

=How long you are being an outfitter?

 

=Do we have to sign a contract? If he tells you is a 7 day hunt make sure he puts that in writing he may be counting the day he went to pick you up at the airport as a hunting day,also the day he take you back to the airport is another day for him.

 

=Do you have references I can call?

 

=what poncentage of your clients are repeat customers?

 

=Ask for a list of customers that were not succesfull and call them too.

 

This is so far what I can think;Cold Zero I'm sorry for what happened to you and your friend but I tell you what,after that encounter with the FEDERALES you guys were blessed by the Lord because nothing bad happened to you;federales are not as polite as the mexican army. Good thing that belongs to the pass,lets forget it.

 

God bless you all and thank you. Ernesto C.

 

P.S. ask the outfitter if there is any drugs in that area.

[More D]

Cold Zero sorry to hear that you had to go through all that. My hunting buddys in Sonora have told me of such stories. As they investigated and explained to me is that during the hunting season Nov, Dec, Jan drugs are transported and stored at homes/ranches like the wonderful place you stayed at. Thing is that there are many places where one can go to hunt with no problem. The ranch you stayed at was not shot out but more than likey they never had any intention doing anything to get you a deer. They were using you and your partner as cover for there wrong doings. The Mexican solgers and Federales know "who is and who isn't" they don't bother or waste there time on liegit hunting camps. My friend in Sonora know buy word of mouth who and which places to stay a way from, we don't but now thanks to you we do!

 

On another note I am sorry to say that I did not get to go on my Sonora hunting trip. We had every thing planed and ready to go on the 1st in the afternoonto return on the 5th but I got a call that my grandmother passed away and had to return to be with my family. The invation still is there, they are going back out the 16th to who knows when but reality, life, no more vacation days left, and bills say no.

 

 

[Guest cold zero]

i did ask at least 90% of the questions listed above.

 

for references one of the guys was bob robb the outdoor writer from ak. who i spoke to at great length and he shot a 36" mule deer and has hunted with them many times. i had 2 guides to myself who were very good especially at tracking the mule deer i wounded and recovered thanks to them. the problem was the ranch not the guides. alex ramoz was the booking agent not the outfitter. he misrepressented himself to us. yes, we did have a contract. the guy who did the gun permits, turns out he was the outfitter. strangely, i asked the outfitter about any drugs on the ranch the nite before the raid and he did not answer me. now i know why. i did ask about the food and the accomodations, i was told beautiful ranch house accom'. the food would be prepared by a local cook serving local food. for breakfast we had a small amount of cold cereal thats it , no cook till dinner time. the guides were in that profession for a long time.

 

i think ernesto is right on with his ideas, but what can u do when you are purposely misled? i have made over 30 guided hunts since 1997 and i am still learning about the business and how to protect ourselves.

 

i appreciate everyones knid words and ideas.

 

cold zero

[Rembrant]

MoreD,

Sorry to here about the loss of your grandmother. Thanks for being the family man - a real man - and taking care of your family.

Mike

[Guest Ernesto C]

Maybe another question is to ask if they have liability insurance and all the accomodations,ranch,cooking etc.etc. should be in the writting in the contract.

 

If you start asking questions and they dont asnwer or they dont want spend some time with you to go over details,maybe that is a sign to get out of there.

 

Blessings. Ernesto C.

[coueshunter]

I just got back last night from Hermosillo and had a fantastic time. I didnt get to get out hunting because it took us till the last night to find a big enough buck for the client. He shot a great 33" outside spread 19" buck. As for your questions, I think from here and through the future, websites or clubs like this one will really help reduce problems for hunters traveling out of state and out of country. I worked this year for Desert Trophy Hunts and the outfitter was Drummond Lindsey. The camps all had good cooks, the property was in good shape and not over hunted. My friend Duwane Adams who is an outfitter, Arizona Big Game Hunts runs a good/honest operation down there, Ojo Caliente runs a reputable operation and there are others that are listed here. I really think this computer networking will help the info gathering steps so we dont get stuck in the unfortunate bind you just experienced. If you can still go this month, there is an opportunity for you to fill your slam out (I just finished my slam last year....what a feeling...........) send me a note if you want more info ........my email is environmentalfiltration@msn.com.............Allen Taylor...............

[Guest Ernesto C]

Hey Allen do you think it will be possible to see some pictures of that 33 incher? Do you where hunting for muleys only or also for coues? That was the only big buck you saw?

 

I'm glad you had a good time in Mexico,hopefully I'll get to go in December of this year I will keep you in mind if I have questions.Thank you and God bless you.

 

Ernesto C.