It has been bugging me…

[COOSEFAN]

I agree with what you are saying Gino and have witnessed exactly what you describe more times than I can recall over the years.

 

I am one of the folks who have shared LR videos here and before doing so I thought long and hard about it. I initially didn't want to post those videos because what folks don't see and most don't appreciate is the time, effort and money that goes into each of my rifles to make them LR effective killers. Another thing folks aren't seeing or appreciate is the fact that before someone uses one of my rifles on a hunt they shoot it, in hunting conditions with a real hunting setup to see what their effective range is with that particular gun. Not all guns shoot the same for each individual person, so just picking up somebody elses gun doesn't mean you can shoot it the same as that guns owner! Lastly what folks aren't seeing in the videos is the hunters trying to figure out if they can get closer and realized they couldn't or that the hunters had already hiked to the closest spot for the shot. I guess I should keep the videos to myself so that folks don't draw conclusions and form opinions about LR hunting in general based off my videos

 

On many occasions this year and past years I had hunters using my rifles and even though my rifles may be effective for me at longer ranges, my hunters knew that they were still limited to what they had practiced and proven to be their effective range with my gun. The main purpose for my guns is so that when clients show up with guns they hadn't shot in years (it happens alot!) I have them use mine and we practice with it to find their effective range prior to the hunt. I can't stand seeing easy shots missed on trophy critters, especially when tons of effort was put forth in finding that critter!!!

 

Another point to mention is that in the end, no matter how much you practiced, no matter how much you know about angles, wind or any of the other factors, hunting is hunting and it's always an un-controlled environment where things can go wrong! Even at less than 200 yards I've seen lots of critters missed or wounded and actually more so at closer ranges than at longer ranges! Crap happens! I've seen some of the best shooters/hunters I know still have missed or wounded animals and it's just something that can happen regardless how much you practice or prepare.

 

My buck this past Oct. is a prime example. I shot over 100 rounds though my new rifle prior to my coues hunt and that's not counting the rounds shot through it to get the turret marked and sighted in! I would travel down close to my hunt areas to shoot my rifles off my hunting setup in the same environment and the same elevation as where I'll be hunting. I practiced shooting in different wind conditions, different angles and different temperatures and I use the tools and charts to allow me to do that. I had both my guns dialed in and both guns, in perfect conditions were killers out to 700-800 yards. The day before my hunt started I shot multiple 3"-5" groups at 600 yards, in a hunting situation with the same equipment, setup and weather as what I'd be hunting in the very next day. That next day is when my buck showed up at 601 yards, the wind was not bad but needed to be accounted for and no angle to worry about. I was totally confident I could kill that buck. The end result after that deer dissappeared and my gun was empty, I realized the wind between the buck and myself was blowing more than we could visually see because of the canyon. I did my homework, spent tons of time getting confident and proficient with my weapon and I still sent 4 bad shots at that buck! Even with a wind meter you could not have accounted for the wind that was appearantly blowing through that canyon and only after witnessing the end result did we realize the problem.

 

Am I one of those bad people for wounding that buck? What else could I have done to prepare myself for that shot? There was no way I could sneak closer, I was rock solid, and I had a friend to call the shot. Thankfully I hiked over there to make sure I missed and ultimately was able to finish off the buck. But my point I guess is that crap happens even to the prepared, whether it's 50 yards or 1000 yards no matter how prepared you are!

 

There are too many folks that think you can just buy a LR rifle take it out and lob lead 1/2 mile away and kill critters. I don't think those folks will learn much by whats being said here and they will still fling lead carelessly in hopes of being successful, regardless if it's a LR shot or just a tough closer shot. And lastly, I do hope that folks who have watched my videos know that my friends and I aren't those types of hunters. JIM>

[COOSEFAN]

sorry for the long post, didn't realize it until after posting it

[Blade53]

This was an awesome threat with some really great advice for eveyone, now we just need to live it, practice it and incorporate into our hunting .........Dan

[Blade53]

Should of said Thread not threat...my bad

[bstpeter]

I know you don't have to have Blaze on here in AZ but I've got ribbon on my pack for this reason. It's sad to say that there are people in the United States of America where hunting isn't just a past time, its suppose to be a lifestyle, brotherhood and right we should cherish and protect. Being responsible and ethical in every manner and taking the safety of every hunter is one of the most important parts. The "people" who are careless/clueless and don't care about how they shoot or what may be next to or behind the animal while they are tossing Hail Mary's need to have a can of whoop arse opened up on them. Think about how you ended up hunting? My dad (thank god I was lucky enough) brought me up hunting and passed on generations of hunting ethics, safety and just plain common sense. I'm sure that most of the people who are blasting 17 shots or taking insane shots where they are just crossing a finger and hoping it hits. probably never had someone close to them who they truly respected as a mentor show them the ropes. As far as one shot one kill thats bunk I agree hunting is hunting last deer I shot in Maine had two in the lung and one in the neck..lol

[Hunterdan]

Good post Gino! I agree with you.

LR shooting, trail cameras, baiting deer, etc.. Western hunting is changing and not for the better IMO.

[.270]

as the unnamed philospher, or whatever it was outdoorwriter said, i still stand by that. if it's legal it's ethical. if you wanna open up a can o' worms, try to legislate ethics. don't even use the word. use opinions. anyway, i, for one, support any and all legal hunting practices, even tho there are a bunch of em i don't really like. hunters have to stick together. no to say coues and sheep is outta line either. he has real concerns. follks need to be competent marksman. you also need to take care of the meat. clean up your camp. close gates. honor private property. stay on the road with your vehicle. etc, etc. but just because anyone doesn't care for something another sportsman does, even if it's legal, ya need to think about the repercussions. what if you hunt over bait, or run hounds, or use quads, or are any of the other hot button issues that are out there? do you want a guy that likes to shoot long range to not support you? there used to be a cartoon strip years ago called "pogo". one of the most famous ones had a saying came from it, "we have seen the enemy, and we is them". if any one little group of this big "team" we should all be on doesn't support the other guys, well, it's the ol' divide and conquer deal. it's good to have concerns. everbody ain't a natural fantastic shot like me. a lotta folks need to practice more. but the stuff like spoiled meat and trashy camps bother me a lot more than a long shot or quads or bait or hounds or whatever. close ranks, stick together, support each other. let peta and the sierra club and wolfers and jerks like that do the badmouthin'. i used to not think to much of the long rangers and even the guys that sat around with binoculars and scopes all day just lookin' for things. and i still have some reservations about it, even tho i have farkiller and can shoot stuff so far away i hafta hurry to beat the buzzards to it. but it has it's place. so do muzzleloaders, bows, pistols, etc. a few years back, i feel, hunters sorta offered trappers as a sacrificial lamb. it was a bad deal. other outdoorsmen shoulda supported em more. we're all paying for it now with all the dang coyotes too. not too long ago, a few guys with some influence, gave up 25% of lion season for 99% of the hunters. a sorry rotten deal. how is that gonna work out next time some a buncha anti's want to outlaw hounds? think about it guys. it's ok to disagree, as long as we all stick together, because we ain't got too many friends outside o' us. lets us not be our own enemy. Lark.

[Blade53]

as the unnamed philospher, or whatever it was outdoorwriter said, i still stand by that. if it's legal it's ethical. if you wanna open up a can o' worms, try to legislate ethics. don't even use the word. use opinions. anyway, i, for one, support any and all legal hunting practices, even tho there are a bunch of em i don't really like. hunters have to stick together. no to say coues and sheep is outta line either. he has real concerns. follks need to be competent marksman. you also need to take care of the meat. clean up your camp. close gates. honor private property. stay on the road with your vehicle. etc, etc. but just because anyone doesn't care for something another sportsman does, even if it's legal, ya need to think about the repercussions. what if you hunt over bait, or run hounds, or use quads, or are any of the other hot button issues that are out there? do you want a guy that likes to shoot long range to not support you? there used to be a cartoon strip years ago called "pogo". one of the most famous ones had a saying came from it, "we have seen the enemy, and we is them". if any one little group of this big "team" we should all be on doesn't support the other guys, well, it's the ol' divide and conquer deal. it's good to have concerns. everbody ain't a natural fantastic shot like me. a lotta folks need to practice more. but the stuff like spoiled meat and trashy camps bother me a lot more than a long shot or quads or bait or hounds or whatever. close ranks, stick together, support each other. let peta and the sierra club and wolfers and jerks like that do the badmouthin'. i used to not think to much of the long rangers and even the guys that sat around with binoculars and scopes all day just lookin' for things. and i still have some reservations about it, even tho i have farkiller and can shoot stuff so far away i hafta hurry to beat the buzzards to it. but it has it's place. so do muzzleloaders, bows, pistols, etc. a few years back, i feel, hunters sorta offered trappers as a sacrificial lamb. it was a bad deal. other outdoorsmen shoulda supported em more. we're all paying for it now with all the dang coyotes too. not too long ago, a few guys with some influence, gave up 25% of lion season for 99% of the hunters. a sorry rotten deal. how is that gonna work out next time some a buncha anti's want to outlaw hounds? think about it guys. it's ok to disagree, as long as we all stick together, because we ain't got too many friends outside o' us. lets us not be our own enemy. Lark.

 

 

+100...good post Lark

[ehunt]

Great post man!! Glad you let it out

[billrquimby]

As I nearly always do, I yield to Lark's superior wisdom.

 

Bill Quimby

[bojangles]

as the unnamed philospher, or whatever it was outdoorwriter said, i still stand by that. if it's legal it's ethical. if you wanna open up a can o' worms, try to legislate ethics. don't even use the word. use opinions. anyway, i, for one, support any and all legal hunting practices, even tho there are a bunch of em i don't really like. hunters have to stick together. no to say coues and sheep is outta line either. he has real concerns. follks need to be competent marksman. you also need to take care of the meat. clean up your camp. close gates. honor private property. stay on the road with your vehicle. etc, etc. but just because anyone doesn't care for something another sportsman does, even if it's legal, ya need to think about the repercussions. what if you hunt over bait, or run hounds, or use quads, or are any of the other hot button issues that are out there? do you want a guy that likes to shoot long range to not support you? there used to be a cartoon strip years ago called "pogo". one of the most famous ones had a saying came from it, "we have seen the enemy, and we is them". if any one little group of this big "team" we should all be on doesn't support the other guys, well, it's the ol' divide and conquer deal. it's good to have concerns. everbody ain't a natural fantastic shot like me. a lotta folks need to practice more. but the stuff like spoiled meat and trashy camps bother me a lot more than a long shot or quads or bait or hounds or whatever. close ranks, stick together, support each other. let peta and the sierra club and wolfers and jerks like that do the badmouthin'. i used to not think to much of the long rangers and even the guys that sat around with binoculars and scopes all day just lookin' for things. and i still have some reservations about it, even tho i have farkiller and can shoot stuff so far away i hafta hurry to beat the buzzards to it. but it has it's place. so do muzzleloaders, bows, pistols, etc. a few years back, i feel, hunters sorta offered trappers as a sacrificial lamb. it was a bad deal. other outdoorsmen shoulda supported em more. we're all paying for it now with all the dang coyotes too. not too long ago, a few guys with some influence, gave up 25% of lion season for 99% of the hunters. a sorry rotten deal. how is that gonna work out next time some a buncha anti's want to outlaw hounds? think about it guys. it's ok to disagree, as long as we all stick together, because we ain't got too many friends outside o' us. lets us not be our own enemy. Lark.

 

 

+100...good post Lark

 

 

 

that's money right there. puts it all into perspective, and that's what's needed.

[bonecollector]

as the unnamed philospher, or whatever it was outdoorwriter said, i still stand by that. if it's legal it's ethical. if you wanna open up a can o' worms, try to legislate ethics. don't even use the word. use opinions. anyway, i, for one, support any and all legal hunting practices, even tho there are a bunch of em i don't really like. hunters have to stick together. no to say coues and sheep is outta line either. he has real concerns. follks need to be competent marksman. you also need to take care of the meat. clean up your camp. close gates. honor private property. stay on the road with your vehicle. etc, etc. but just because anyone doesn't care for something another sportsman does, even if it's legal, ya need to think about the repercussions. what if you hunt over bait, or run hounds, or use quads, or are any of the other hot button issues that are out there? do you want a guy that likes to shoot long range to not support you? there used to be a cartoon strip years ago called "pogo". one of the most famous ones had a saying came from it, "we have seen the enemy, and we is them". if any one little group of this big "team" we should all be on doesn't support the other guys, well, it's the ol' divide and conquer deal. it's good to have concerns. everbody ain't a natural fantastic shot like me. a lotta folks need to practice more. but the stuff like spoiled meat and trashy camps bother me a lot more than a long shot or quads or bait or hounds or whatever. close ranks, stick together, support each other. let peta and the sierra club and wolfers and jerks like that do the badmouthin'. i used to not think to much of the long rangers and even the guys that sat around with binoculars and scopes all day just lookin' for things. and i still have some reservations about it, even tho i have farkiller and can shoot stuff so far away i hafta hurry to beat the buzzards to it. but it has it's place. so do muzzleloaders, bows, pistols, etc. a few years back, i feel, hunters sorta offered trappers as a sacrificial lamb. it was a bad deal. other outdoorsmen shoulda supported em more. we're all paying for it now with all the dang coyotes too. not too long ago, a few guys with some influence, gave up 25% of lion season for 99% of the hunters. a sorry rotten deal. how is that gonna work out next time some a buncha anti's want to outlaw hounds? think about it guys. it's ok to disagree, as long as we all stick together, because we ain't got too many friends outside o' us. lets us not be our own enemy. Lark.

 

I agree with Lark.

 

This thread would also be good ammo for the anti's!

[AntlerObsession]

Oh such slippery slopes...and I know I'll hate myself in the morning, but...

 

To quote a well-known unnamed philosopher, "if it's legal, it's ethical."

 

If we had ethical people, we wouldn't need laws for everything. If we had laws for everything, we wouldn't need ethical people.

 

I agree 100% with CnSheep. If we don't educate each other, and learn what an ethical shot for ourselves is (everyone's is unique), we may have gov't officials telling us how far we can shoot.

Can you imagine some biologist examining our game, and determining if the shot was too far, too low, too far back, and throwing citations at us for misplaced shots? I would hate to give those treehuggers any ideas, but we do have to be careful!

[AntlerObsession]

Oh such slippery slopes...and I know I'll hate myself in the morning, but...

 

To quote a well-known unnamed philosopher, "if it's legal, it's ethical."

 

If we had ethical people, we wouldn't need laws for everything. If we had laws for everything, we wouldn't need ethical people.

 

I agree 100% with CnSheep. If we don't educate each other, and learn what an ethical shot for ourselves is (everyone's is unique), we may have gov't officials telling us how far we can shoot.

Can you imagine some biologist examining our game, and determining if the shot was too far, too low, too far back, and throwing citations at us for misplaced shots? I would hate to give those treehuggers any ideas, but we do have to be careful!

Maybe I should delete this before I give them any ideas...

 

[Outdoor Writer]

Tony you are a credible scribe I wish you didn't subscribe to the "if it's legal it's ethical" philosophy.

 

Reread what I said. Because I quote someone doesn't mean I subscribe to the notion. And that's all I will say on the subject.