Better stock up - Obama trying to ban 223 ammo

[kazpilot25]

Has anybody read anything about this? Apparently he's signed some executive orders and the BATFE is now taking comments on the subject before ruling on March 15.

 

I for one don't think it will ever get pushed through, but I do think that it may cause a huge ammo shortage… again. Thoughts?

[Snapshot]

I saw the articles on this. His Agenda on this is that he feels the "Ball Ammo" is an armor(Body armor) piercing round, and needs to be eliminated as a threat to law enforcement, and those who wear bullet proof vests as an LEO, or Fed.

 

To me, it is nothing but another backdoor approach to chip away the freedom of Guns and ammo.

 

It's just another Executive "End Around" Congress.

[Snapshot]

From the NRA....

 

 

In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives unexpectedly announced today that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as “armor piercing ammunition.” The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.

It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control. First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated “manufacturing” of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less than year old position on firing a shouldered “pistol.” Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)©”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.

By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”

Now, however, BATFE says that it will henceforth grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles:

Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles

A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)( will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)© if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge.

Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles

Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)© if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes.

BATFE is accepting comments until March 16, 2015 on this indefensible attempt to disrupt ammunition for the most popular rifle in America. Check back early next week for a more in-depth analysis of this “framework” and details on how you can submit comments.

[PRDATR]

Contact ATF:
Oppose 5.56 M855 Ball Ammunition Ban

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has announced it is seeking to ban commonplace 5.56 M855 ball ammunition as "armor piercing ammunition." ATF is seeking public comment on the proposal, so all industry employees, target shooters and gun owners should contact ATF to oppose this unnecessary ban, which is truly a solution in search of a problem and that raises serious questions about executive agency attitude and overreach. Stopped cold on Capitol Hill, this action appears to be the Obama administration's attempt to pursue gun control by other means.

Commonly available steel-core, "green tip" M855 and SS109 rifle ammunition that is primarily intended and regularly used for "sporting purposes," like target shooting, has been exempt from federal law banning armor piercing ammunition for decades. There is no question that the 5.56 ball ammo has been in wide use by law abiding American citizens for sporting purposes.

It is with the increasing prevalence of handgun versions of rifle platforms, that ATF now apparently sees an opening to now ban the widely used M855 and SS109 ammunition.

It would be legally permissible to continue to possess and use so-defined "armor piercing" ammunition currently possessed. However, rescinding the decades-old exemption will have a major impact. It will become illegal to manufacture, import, distribute or sell at retail this very popular rifle target ammunition.

ATF's proposed "framework" for applying the "sporting purpose" exemption test rewrites the law passed by Congress to disregard the manufacturer's intention that a projectile or cartridge is "primarily intended for a supporting purpose." ATF inappropriately places the focus on how criminals might misuse sporting ammunition in a handgun.

Just as disturbing, language used by ATF in its long white paper refers to criminals as a "consumer group." The implication that the industry purposely sells firearms and ammunition to criminals is misleading and echoes the shopworn charges of the gun control lobby.

Manufacturers will face serious limitations in their ability to develop and market alternative ammunition in other popular hunting rounds, such as .308 rifle hunting ammunition, if ATF's so-called "framework" is adopted. This will have a detrimental effect on hunting nationwide, especially in California where a total ban on traditional ammunition for hunting is being phased in now.

ATF is soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while "minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety". Under the proposed framework, 30-06 M2AP cartridges would continue to be exempt because there are no multi-shot handguns generally available that accept such ammunition.

The proposal is useless since standard lead-only 5.56 ammunition is "armor piercing" simply due to the round's velocity. Rifles in this caliber, or any caliber for that matter, are rarely used in crimes.

ATF will accept comments on this proposal until March 16, 2015. Email or write ATF today and tell them you oppose this unnecessary, misguided and damaging ban on commonly used ammunition for America's most popular sporting rifles.

Email: APAComments@atf.gov
Fax: (202) 648-9741.

Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.

[Snapshot]

The ATF Dog and Pony show accepting comments is pretty ironic, when they already have their minds made up.

[HuntHarder]

What is the point of the steel tip on the ammo? I am trying to understand why this ammo is even made? Most ammo is either FMJ or hollow point for plinking. Why the Steel?

[Snapshot]

One of the articles said that this type of ammo was made to kill enemies wearing hard body armor. IMO- one of the reasons Obama want's to ban it. He doesn't want Americans shooting rounds that will penetrate Kevlar

[HuntHarder]

Ammo made for armor piercing is already banned, isn't it? So, I guess if this is designed to do that, I see no reason why anyone would need it other than M&P. I am usually against anything this administration does, but this might be something I finally understand.

 

You and I both know that all of our high power rifles penetrate most Kevlar.

[Snapshot]

The M855 Ammo, or Green tip, is standard issue, and not classified, or banned as armor piercing. It has a steel tip with a lead core. It can penetrate Kevlar, but not steel plate as a true armor piercing round could. Armor piercing ammo that are on the banned list include bullets made of heavy metals, and, or special tips.

[HuntHarder]

Standard issue to M&P. I understand that the average guy can buy this stuff, but it was really intended for M&P. Why does a target shooter or hunter really have a need for this particular round? Plenty of FMJ or HP or soft point ammo for plinking, and numerous bullet types for hunting. I understand the ideology behind give an inch and they take a mile, but this seems like pretty common sense stuff.

 

My point in the above post was to understand why this ammo is made? Without using any angle on why it is made, just give facts. Was the reason this steel tipped ammo was manufactured to penetrate Kevlar? If so, keep it in the hands of M&P, and you and I have plenty of other ammo that will do the same thing, just not be manufactured with this intent. Buy bigger guns, and the bullet is irrelevant when going up against standard Kevlar!!

[Snapshot]

I read that the original M855 ammo, which is a NATO round, was designed to penetrate body armor of an enemy combatant. Where the ammo that it replaced was prone to fragmenting, and lack of penetration.

 

The Army has since issued the improved M855A1 ammo which has a solid copper core with steel tip, instead of lead core, and can penetrate certain types of masonry (Brick walls) out to 80 meters.

[HuntHarder]

That makes sense. That would explain why there is so much m885 ammo around. Tooling is there and now is not being used for it's original intended purpose. The M885A1 ammo sounds like some serious stuff! Making the M16 relevant thru any type of barrier is tough to do. I am a huge fan of 7.62 x 39 over 5.56. I love my AR, but give me one weapon to take into battle, and I am grabbing my AK every time.

[5guyshunting]

I have worn kevlar and an armor in the early 90s both together would not stop any .223 round or any other rifle round . Im not sure about the "new" kevlar and armor plate, but if you get hit, your not gonna get up for a bit. Maybe never. If this is banned all will be banned . Bigger calibers will decimate their kevlar and armor, from long range or short range . There is no legitamite point to any of this, its a really hard left turn.

[AZ8]

"Two years is a long time. Two years is also the time in which were going to be setting the stage for the next presidential election and the next 10 years of American policy. So I intend to run through the tape and work really hard, and squeeze every last little bit of change. - Barack Hussien Obama, Feb 20, 2015

 

http://nypost.com/2015/02/22/obama-is-on-a-rampage/

[deserttacoma84]

So I am correct to say that this only pertains currently to the 2 listed projectiles. All other fmj or hollow points are still good to go? Yes?