Kaibab archery Cow Buffalo - aug 12th---25th

[antlerhuntress]

Will do, thanks!

[tomharveyb]

I'll play devil's advocate here. I hunted bison in the July 29-Aug 11 hunt so am not just spouting off. Russ puts out 6000# of salt /year, sets up blinds on them and puts hunters in them whether you pay him or not. He's a licensed guide who pays all the fees to parks, forest service, etc. He pays insurance on his operation. He spends 150 days/year on the Kaibab doing his thing with the bison. Tell me why hunters who pay for his service shouldn't get priority over the freeloaders. That's the way it works.

[jim]

Wow Wade that's a lot of money wasted so this guy can make his money. I was hoping you would get one.

[jim]

The reason there should be fairness in blind assignment is he is asking hunters to go along with his program to allow his hunters to be successful. Rotate the blinds or the unpaid hunters should just start hunting how they need to harvest their animals.

[Big Browns]

This is exactly why I have been buying points and not putting in for the hunt. I don't have the money for a guide and if I did I probably would not hire one anyway. I'm hoping they open the park to hunting and that will change the hunt Drastically.

 

I have a lot of respect for Russ and everything he does for the non-paying clients. Yes, he puts his paid clients on the better salt, as he should. If I paid for a guided hunt and found out he allowed a non-paid hunter to hunt the more active salt I would be pissed. I've also known several people who have not paid any money who were able to kill with the help of Russ. Overall he does his best to help the non paying hunters while also doing everything he can to ensure success to his paying customers. They both go hand in hand.

 

Unfortunately the area has a lot of hunt pressure and scouting like you would on any other hunt has the potential to really mess up other people's hunts. I would hope everyone who has this tag has the common respect to not do that. I know you don't want to hear this, but did you really expect Russ to give a non paying hunter a great salt spot? If he still had clients trying to get animals you would definitely come after them. Yes, you could have decided to disregard what Russ asked and go to the more active salt. I'm happy to hear you didn't.

 

As you discovered this hunt has some very interesting challenges. I agree 100% with you. This is not the type of hunt I am interested in!

[azpredator@work]

Believe me guys, I thought long and hard about what I would post on the forum. It's a catch 22 anyway you look at it. I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing Russ, however I will never agree one man's tag is more important than another's. Once the paid hunter was found out for screwing things up the other folks should have had an opportunity at the active salt.

I just hope this thread helps a guy deciding whether or not this hunt is for him in the future and provide a little insight that I didn't have until after drawing the tag.

 

Thanks Jim...I definitely need the meat. Running a little low this year👎

[Phil Carr]

There are a number of ways to look at this. Russ is a professional that operates this as a business. He is paid by clients to help them to harvest their once in a lifetime bison. Then there are others that do not hire a guide that also wish to harvest their once in a lifetime bison. Those that do not hire a guide are encouraged to avoid scouting. Hence they are not setting up blinds days in advance, putting out salt or cameras in order to limit the amount of possible disturbance of the buffalo. This is a unique situation as there are only 10 hunters for each hunt, but limited areas to hunt. This area is public land open to all hunters equally not just those that pay. The real problem is who gets to hunt where? When we go hunting for any other game animal on public land we hunt where we wish within reason.

I have been calling other hunters from prior hunts, some successful and some not. I have narrowed down the area I wish to hunt. I realize that salt licks have been maintained, blinds are in place, and some hunters have paid for a service. But should the do it yourself guys be denied a fair opertunity to hunt a spot simply because they did not hire a guide? I would happily put out my own salt and blind as well as cameras.

The reality is the hunt is in really not what I had visualized when I put in for a tag, But I plan on being a team player. My feeling is here are herd animals and there is a high probability that a herd may visit a salt. This provides multiple chance for several hunters to haven't a buffalo. I will not have any issue if there are several people wishing to share a salt with me. Will call Russ this week so I can better understand how blinds are "assigned"

[Heat]

I'm sorry to hear things didn't go your way. This hunt is not for everyone and I'm not the biggest fan of the way things work either. That said it is us nly going to get worse. The timing and additional hunters are not favorable changes for the hunting experience IMO.

[WhtMtnHunter]

So for you guys that have been on this hunt. Sitting on 30 points do you apply for the spring tag or go to Raymond ranch or just wait for a few more years? How far from the GCNP border are the salt licks set? What are the consequences of simply going where the bison are even if that means walking past or interfering with the paid clientele?

[Explorer]

Paid clientele should never have priority over real hunters who put in work. I would step on a guide in a heartbeat.

[Little Creek Calls]

So for you guys that have been on this hunt. Sitting on 30 points do you apply for the spring tag or go to Raymond ranch or just wait for a few more years? How far from the GCNP border are the salt licks set? What are the consequences of simply going where the bison are even if that means walking past or interfering with the paid clientele?

 

I know how you feel. I quit putting in for the 12A hunts a few years back when I first started hearing some of these type of stories and started only putting in for Raymond ranch hunts. Sure going out with the department employee and having them designate the animal to harvested at Raymond ranch doesn’t sound all that sporting but neither does being told what blind to sit in for 2 weeks and never seeing a bison and eating the cost of the tag. At least with the Raymond ranch it will only take one day and you know you will fill your tag. I am glad my Dad and I went to Montana and hunted them on one of Ted Turner’s ranches 15 years ago before the price went up too much. Sure it wasn’t that much different than what happens now here in AZ but it was still fun and the meat was great. That experience is what keeps me still putting for the Raymond ranch heard and I still hope that someday rules will change with the national park and it will return to more of a hunt again.

[hoghntr]

Believe me guys, I thought long and hard about what I would post on the forum. It's a catch 22 anyway you look at it. I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing Russ, however I will never agree one man's tag is more important than another's. Once the paid hunter was found out for screwing things up the other folks should have had an opportunity at the active salt.

I just hope this thread helps a guy deciding whether or not this hunt is for him in the future and provide a little insight that I didn't have until after drawing the tag.

 

Thanks Jim...I definitely need the meat. Running a little low this year👎

This is exactly why I tossed in the towel and took my meat tag in Raymond this year. My whole life I have dreamed of my big bull bison from house rock. the stories I have heard about how it all goes down up there led me to just flat give up and decide to go get the meat I paid for. I was not about to go get all bent out of shape on a hunt I dreamed of my whole life.

 

Sorry you did not score some steaks

[hoghntr]

So for you guys that have been on this hunt. Sitting on 30 points do you apply for the spring tag or go to Raymond ranch or just wait for a few more years? How far from the GCNP border are the salt licks set? What are the consequences of simply going where the bison are even if that means walking past or interfering with the paid clientele?

I have heard stories will be told of the non obedient for decades. L.O.L.

[tomharveyb]

So for you guys that have been on this hunt. Sitting on 30 points do you apply for the spring tag or go to Raymond ranch or just wait for a few more years? How far from the GCNP border are the salt licks set? What are the consequences of simply going where the bison are even if that means walking past or interfering with the paid clientele?

Going to where the buffalo are means you are going into the park to hunt. The conseqences of that probably wouldn't be good!! It's the only hunting you will do where you are hunting them where they don't live, hoping they come to you. All the salt licks are close to the park- like 1/2 mile or less. If I had 30 points I would put in for the long spring hunt, hold out for a nice bull, and cooperate with everyone else involved. Doing it rogue will mean you will be going home empty handed. Raymond ranch is like shooting a moo cow on a farm. My 2cents.

[Heat]

So for you guys that have been on this hunt. Sitting on 30 points do you apply for the spring tag or go to Raymond ranch or just wait for a few more years? How far from the GCNP border are the salt licks set? What are the consequences of simply going where the bison are even if that means walking past or interfering with the paid clientele?

Spring hunt probably if I wanted a bull and had a do over. You get more time and the bison are spread out over a larger area however the weather could suck and you might have a lot of company on the warm weekends, especially as the end of the hunt approaches. Notice that the Spring hunt will end on June 1st this year. Following that hunt will be two, two week hunts with 12 any bull tags each. The weather and movement should be good but that is too many people trying to hunt such a small area at once. Now that the July hunts start a week later I would avoid those hunts for sure.