Unit 27 Schedule Change Outcome ?

[GreyGhost85]

i would say the wolves are about equal in unit one and 27. most of the wolves i have seen i suspect travel between the units. there are a LOT more wolves than USFW want to admit. i'm sorry, but if there were only around 100 wolves in AZ, you wouldn't see them nearly as often. the wolves are not what is destroying these units though, over harvesting of elk is

[Alpinebullwinkle]

The only thing I will add to GG85's comments is both 27 and 1 cannot handle the double whammy of the late season gun hunt highly elevated harvest rates, and the addition of more wolves.....which is the desire of USFW, and seemingly not getting enough resistance from AGFD. That will ultimately reduce their annual revenues, and also our elk hunting opportunities.

[naturebob]

I always joke, SSS, but pretty soon at the rate things are going Things might have to happen from the Hunting Community. I mean You Young guys that have no problem breaking the Law..LOL................BOB!

[double lunger14]

My brother shot a 356" in 27 on the early rifle hunt this year with only two days to hunt and my dad shot a 378" this year on the unit 1 early archery hunt. Saw plenty of healthy and big Bulls in both Units for the 3 weeks I spent up there before the hunts started.

[PowellSixO]

It's a phase thing too. What ever unit is the hot unit, will get hammered. 10 and 9 used to be hot, and have slipped over the last few years. Guides and hunters are getting more proficient. When they get in a unit that's hot they clean the old bulls out. Once it loses it's popularity, the bulls will come back within 4-6 years. The gene pool is still there, and the big bulls will be once again, but you have to give them time to grow. 23 is pretty hot right now, and it will probably see the same fate. But I do agree that tag numbers are getting a little out of control. I vote that they lower the amount of tags by 10-15% state wide, and raise the price of the tags to offset the $$$ they lose for several years until they get the numbers back in all units state wide.

[Becker]

Does anyone have the data with tag numbers for unit 27 and unit 1 for the last ten years?

 

As well as survey numbers for the number of elk in the two units?

[kwp]

Does anyone have the data with tag numbers for unit 27 and unit 1 for the last ten years?

 

As well as survey numbers for the number of elk in the two units?

 

I've been keeping an eye on this for a little while so I have Tag and Harvest data back to 2004. Remember that harvest data is a little challenging to get accurate but these are the numbers G&F reports in their Hunt AZ Data. These are just the Bull Hunts

 

 

Unit 1 shows a pretty steady harvest # of ~325 bulls through 2010 and it then jumps to an average of ~ 400 bulls harvested per year from 2011-2015 (20-25% increase).

 

 

Unit 27 is much more dramatic. Consistently less than 200 bull harvested 2004-2007 with a low of 165. Jump in tags in 2008 and increase in harvest to ~220 from 2008 to 2011. Post Wallow Fire plus tag increases shows a spike in bulls harvested to a max of 399 in 2014. That is nearly 2.5 times the number of bulls harvested just 8 years prior.

 

My thoughts are that the spike in harvest that both units saw 2011-2015 has caused much fewer 4+ year old bulls, thus fewer quality bulls. AZ has good genetics, and these two units get consistent enough moisture that there is generally enough feed, bulls just need age to get big and fewer bulls are getting to that age.

 

Notice that both units showed a drop in harvest #s in 2015. Could this be due to the hit the elk took 2011-2014. The 2016 data will be interesting once published.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Thank you for sharing that data KWP. Seems to support exactly what many of us are experiencing and quacking about. Post Wallow Fire that late gun hunt in each unit has turned into a slaughter with the improved sight distance and changed elk behaviors from fire nutrients and aerial seeding. Admittedly I was a supporter of more late gun season tags prior to the fire. No longer prudent though, looking at the data and what we are seeing currently. Appears the down cycle has started and will take a few years and perhaps management strategy changes to turn things around.

[Becker]

Thx KWP.

 

How about some survey numbers for numbers of elk in the units?

[654321]

Thx KWP.

How about some survey numbers for numbers of elk in the units?

Just send a polite e-mail to Amber Munig at the AZGFD and ask her if she has the latest elk population numbers for unit 1and 27.

[trphyhntr]

 

Does anyone have the data with tag numbers for unit 27 and unit 1 for the last ten years?

 

As well as survey numbers for the number of elk in the two units?

 

I've been keeping an eye on this for a little while so I have Tag and Harvest data back to 2004. Remember that harvest data is a little challenging to get accurate but these are the numbers G&F reports in their Hunt AZ Data. These are just the Bull Hunts

 

Unit1.JPG

 

Unit 1 shows a pretty steady harvest # of ~325 bulls through 2010 and it then jumps to an average of ~ 400 bulls harvested per year from 2011-2015 (20-25% increase).

 

Unit27.JPG

 

Unit 27 is much more dramatic. Consistently less than 200 bull harvested 2004-2007 with a low of 165. Jump in tags in 2008 and increase in harvest to ~220 from 2008 to 2011. Post Wallow Fire plus tag increases shows a spike in bulls harvested to a max of 399 in 2014. That is nearly 2.5 times the number of bulls harvested just 8 years prior.

 

My thoughts are that the spike in harvest that both units saw 2011-2015 has caused much fewer 4+ year old bulls, thus fewer quality bulls. AZ has good genetics, and these two units get consistent enough moisture that there is generally enough feed, bulls just need age to get big and fewer bulls are getting to that age.

 

Notice that both units showed a drop in harvest #s in 2015. Could this be due to the hit the elk took 2011-2014. The 2016 data will be interesting once published.

 

wow. and thats only what got reported right

[Becker]

I'd like to see the population numbers for the last ten years or so to follow up KWP's info.

[kwp]

It doesn't look like G&F publishes total elk numbers, at least not that I see in the Hunt AZ data.

[trphyhntr]

would their pre burn population count even be as accurate as their post burn though? I'm sure they did see way more Bulls surveying flying over the burns than they did before right?

Or maybe they have other ways of surveying

[moche]

ok, so don't throw stones at me for my comment but I think the trail cameras have been a detriment to the trophy bull population. those bulls that would go undetected and move at night are all caught on camera. every outfitter in AZ appear to have cameras set up on every watering hole in AZ along with the solo hunters that have time to do the same. those big bulls do not have a chance thus the population of big bulls has gotten hammered over the last ten years. same with the Deer up north. there appear to be fewer of those giant bucks killed than a few years back. just my opinion.

my wife had an early black powder hunt in unit one last month and had dreams of taking a 350 plus bull. she passed on may small bulls and we saw small bulls everyday, lots of them. very few cows!. She came home without a bull as we only saw one bull in the 350 plus range and could not close the deal. It was a great hunt as hunts go but the quality we expected to see was not there.

if there is a trophy bull in the woods the outfitters will have it on film and most likely kill it. cameras have changed the game to a point that I feel it is affecting the trophy quality and taking the edge away from the game. I feel that there are a lot of DYI hunters that are way more talented than most outfitters. They just have the advantage of spending more time in the wood with all the electronics the hunting world can provide them. Just my thoughts.