National Forest travel maps-what am I missing?

[tomharveyb]

I just finished a hunt in unit 8. I got my travel maps, made sure my camp was on an "approved" road for camping, hiked in on a road for a mile to get into a spot because the road wasn't on the map. In the process of trying to comply with everything, it became clear that I was pretty much alone. Side by sides and quads used any road they felt like using, and there were camps everywhere- where they were supposedly illegal. By Dogtown Lake alone there must have 100 camps on roads that were shown on the map to be closed to camping. What's the deal? Is there anybody enforcing this stuff, or is this more worthless Governmental regulation that doesn't mean anything? I noticed the same thing last spring in 5a while turkey hunting.

[Tac]

Useless govt crap as always

[300RUM]

I've done hunts 5B South in 6A and followed those Maps. I was definitely in the minority.

[azslim]

what annoys me the most about the TMP is if you are a rancher, logger or cutting firewood you can use all the roads, only us that want to camp or hunt have to follow them

[creed]

They are a joke and unenforceable.

[MT_Sourdough]

Right now, on google earth, you can see obvious fresh atv tracks cutting across Woodchute Wilderness. Welcome to the wild west.

In Montana, they would put up signs on roads regarding their status and usually had locked gates on the closed access roads. Local ranchers had keys to the gates and everybody else usually followed the rules. Local ranchers were the first line of enforcement. My neighbor would keep track of all vehicles coming and going. If she was suspicious of anybodies activities or intentions, she'd be on her atv following them with binoculars and sidearm. Butte, Montana has it's share of lawless folk, but Browns Gulch was kept in check.

[Ohthatguy]

Useless govt crap as always

 

 

Sucks when you play by the rules only to get screwed.

 

Sounds like there are two camps here.. One that gets mad that they try to close a road, disregard the rules and drive down any road they find and the other that gets mad at camp 1 for doing it while following the rules.

Sad but seems pretty clear that if they want to actually close roads, cables and chains are the only solution.. At least the people driving around a chain can't play stupid. And no doubt, some will do it anyway.

[4Falls]

I seem to be the only person who has actually had interactions with forest service on this issue. I've had them chase me down on open roads only to catch up to me as I begin walking into a closed road area. I've watched them take pictures of my truck and license plate as it was parked off the side of the road. My friend was questioned by a FS LEO as he was sitting in his truck because it fit the description of one that was reported to be driving on closed roads (white pickup was the description). All of these happened in unit 8.

 

I've always played by the rules when it comes to the Travel Management Rules, but it breaks my heart when i walk into an area that is closed and there's tire tracks all over it and a side by side or two parked along the way. Like others have said it really seems to be tilted towards hunters, it should be all or nothing. I cant ride a dirt bike down a road but a wood cutter with a one ton, four wheel drive, leaking oil like a sieve, dually is ok?

 

I've asked this question to both Coconino and Kaibab "officials" but cant get a straight answer... So if I have a wood permit and a chainsaw and a couple pieces of wood in my truck I can go where I want? They both have said "Well... that depends on how the officer interprets the rule at the time." Same as everything else I guess.

[AzDiamondHeat]

 

Useless govt crap as always

 

 

Sucks when you play by the rules only to get screwed.

 

Sounds like there are two camps here.. One that gets mad that they try to close a road, disregard the rules and drive down any road they find and the other that gets mad at camp 1 for doing it while following the rules.

Sad but seems pretty clear that if they want to actually close roads, cables and chains are the only solution.. At least the people driving around a chain can't play stupid. And no doubt, some will do it anyway.

 

 

They are not only going around chains they are driving OVER the barricades in their jacked up machnes. It is disgusting.

 

and don't get em started about camping near water holes....

[ThomC]

When you see violations you have to report it if you want to have the problem solved. Dont expect the government agency to be every where. It is your land now take care of it.

[MT_Sourdough]

I had a forest service official explain some of their hidden logic/agenda. I was told they'll let roads degrade to a level that very few people will travel them. That way they save money on maintenance as well as enforcement. They will enforce closures when they can, but they do not have the manpower nor the will to invest into what is really needed to enforce compliance.

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

They could fix the whole problem by blocking the dang roads, a little yellow sticker won't do a dang thing. Duuuh, fell a tree across the road or put rock there and it would be fine. Poor planning and execution and for the most part a dumb idea to start with " even though I like closed roads"

[GJMauro12]

I have been following the TMP for the most part. During the spring turkey hunt i was ticketed because I was parked .16 of a mile down a closed road. My cousin was ticketed for it during the archery deer hunt, same unit. What pisses me off is ever since my ticket I have followed the rules completely. But, I downloaded their map on avenza and started checking all the roads. I found roads that actually had the tiny closed signs that showed open on the avenza app.

 

At the beginning of August I hiked a mile down a closed road to glass from the end of it. When I got to the end there was 2 trucks and 3 tents. On the way out I seen a forest service truck go by and chased her down to ask some questions.

 

I started the conversation by asking if she knew when some construction would be done on a closed dirt road they were repairing. She couldn't answer and then I asked if she could give me some information on the TMP. Her whole attitude changed and said what do you want to know?

 

I asked her if anyone is enforcing it and what I should do when I come across violators. She told me to call them into the office and then reluctantly said or your can tell me.

 

So I told her about a mile back on road number &&& there is a road closed sign and a camp back there about a mile.

 

She said thanks and drove off.

 

I checked the camp the next day and they were still there.

 

And Last weekend during the elk hunt I drove some open roads looking for people camped in illegal spots. They were everywhere and I also seen forest service out that weekend so they had to of seen them and did nothing.

 

Long rant but I've been frustrated by the whole thing. I don't mind walking but I don't want to be out there 3 hours early to get to a spot first by walking a closed road to have some one fly by me just before daylight and beat me to a spot.

[PRDATR]

 

I've asked this question to both Coconino and Kaibab "officials" but cant get a straight answer... So if I have a wood permit and a chainsaw and a couple pieces of wood in my truck I can go where I want? They both have said "Well... that depends on how the officer interprets the rule at the time." Same as everything else I guess.

 

 

I would say that as long as you are only cutting wood you would be fine. But if you stopped cutting wood to say hunt squirrels then you "could" be cited.

[300RUM]

Maybe those who harvest meat should band together and file a discrimination based lawsuit because they are not treated equally to those harvesting wood. Be interesting to see USFS defend themselves against that one. The rules on public land should apply equally to all users without discrimination against some groups of users.