Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

[muledeerarea33?]

So the funding that we need is for what exactly? Auction tags cant be used for the funding that is needed? Why are auction tags even being mentioned then?

[Nefarious Red]

So the funding that we need is for what exactly? Auction tags cant be used for the funding that is needed? Why are auction tags even being mentioned then?

it's the funding game and fish needs to engage in the type of outreach needed to engage the uninformed public about hunters role in wildlife conservation. They can't do it with current funding methods, by law.

 

And there are no auction tags. It was just one idea offered to the public. They are looking for input from sportsmen on these ideas.

[GreyGhost85]

Its really black and white here. Auction tag money goes to AZGFD for education. The rich auction tag buyers will then in turn donate lots of money to CAPAZ.....but they will only donate if the tag grab passes.

[Nefarious Red]

Its really black and white here. Auction tag money goes to AZGFD for education. The rich auction tag buyers will then in turn donate lots of money to CAPAZ.....but they will only donate if the tag grab passes.

where are you getting this info?

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

 

So the funding that we need is for what exactly? Auction tags cant be used for the funding that is needed? Why are auction tags even being mentioned then?

it's the funding game and fish needs to engage in the type of outreach needed to engage the uninformed public about hunters role in wildlife conservation. They can't do it with current funding methods, by law.

 

And there are no auction tags. It was just one idea offered to the public. They are looking for input from sportsmen on these ideas.

There has been discussion about whether they could use PR funds. Set that aside. They can use license fees, tag fees, etc from the general fund. They do it now with things like Wildlife Views. Please be specific - what law prevents G&F from using such general fund moneys for the education you envision? I and others have suggested, including at the Bass Pro meeting, raising the license fee a buck or two to raise the money. This would not even require legislation. If you know otherwise, please be specific and cite the Statute that prevents that.

 

ARS 17-333 allows G&F to set fees within the limits of ARS 17-333.01. This also came up at the BP meeting.

 

If I am wrong, please cite the law and I will gladly stand corrected.

 

Bruce

[Nefarious Red]

Bruce, I can only mention the P and R funds. I don't know about the particulars of any other law, so I cant offer any input.

 

As far as the fee raise idea, that has been looked into. I think Game and Fish is nominally against it, because they just did a lot of hard work to lower the fees.

 

I tend to agree with the stamp or tag fee. I don't know how much it would bring in, but add some raffle tags, my opinion is we would do pretty good.

[Delw]

.

 

I tend to agree with the stamp or tag fee. I don't know how much it would bring in, but add some raffle tags, my opinion is we would do pretty good.

How about NOT offering any TAGS. the majority of hunters DONT want tags offered in anyway shape or form.

 

Auction tags and Raffle tags ONLY help 2 groups of people. the people holding the raffle/ auction and Guides. it doesnt help the general hunting public.

 

This thread started because of this group wanting Auction Tags/ and to make Arizona like the Utah model then after the backlash and finding out the players involved it went to Raffle tags and still left the same players involved.

Get rid of raffle auction/ tags dump the same players and people may do something. but that wont happen because the group wouldnt want to exist if it wasnt for welfare tags of some sort.

The groups mentioned are using fear to make there cause sound justifiable. these groups and the people involved always have from day one.(back in the 2012 days and even before that.).

 

It would be nice for once to see a group formed to help out in conservation and anti hunting issues with out getting tags of any sort. alot of these guys here have many good answers but you and your group/groups are still fixated on getting tags.

oh and before you say it cant be done it has on the fisheries side. yup a few groups if fishermen are very active in conservation,and even politics from the antis. everything is done through donations ,membership and hard work from volunteers. key word volunteers not paid employees

 

Delw

[Nefarious Red]

First off Delw, as I have stated, I'm not a part of CAPAZ. But they did bail us out on the mountain lion ban, even though you will not acknowledge it, and attribute it ti angry emails from hunters. As if the biggest anti hunting organization in the U.S. spent millions on the ban, then decided to quit because of angry emails.

 

Second, you are underestimating sportsman support on this. There is a world outside of a few angry voices on this thread. What is going to end up happening is we are going to continue to fight amongst ourselves, and we all are going to lose.

 

Finally, my group is dedicated to fighting HSUS. We owe it to ourselves and to CAPAZ to listen to their proposals and give our input. And if we can do what we need to do without auction tags, I'm all for it.

[trphyhntr]

[AZDirtyTaco]

"We have a group thats willing to lead and has the connections to do it."

 

That's the kind of attitude that Hamberlin, Gilstrap, Weiers, and others (talk about connections) thought would win in 2012 with the HB2072 tag grab. We all can check the history of that effort.

 

On another front, earlier in this thread someone posted an article about Colorado and Michigan raising license fees to fund an education effort. I tried Google but it failed me. Does anyone know of a State that has implemented a raffle/auction tag program in addition to existing special tags for the purpose of funding an education campaign or is AZ to be the first? I'd like to study the details.

Trophyseeker posted this a couple of days ago - https://nimrodsociety.org/about-us/

 

I spoke with Bob Radocy for about an hour yesterday morning and absolutely loved what he had to say. I asked if he and their group would be willing to help us here in AZ and he did not hesitate to follow-up with an offer to make trip out. I have passed his information along to a few others for review and understand his/their info will also be forwarded to the commissioner. My ask for each of you; is to please vet these Nimrod guys out and see what you can come up with, pro's and con's.

 

It's important to understand that these options like what the Nimrod Society propose (which are 100% in-line with many of our ideas), take time and legislative action to pass. That is not going to happen within in the short term and we're realistically looking at a 12-24mo process. The benefits of going this route clearly outline a long-term and sustainable solution that places the onus on the sportsman to generate the revenue needed. I 100% support this approach and believe this is one we can all get behind.

 

On to CAP - I am no longer of the opinion that these "folks" (yah I said it... lol) are the evil enemy and that this is truly a "tag grab". This group has worked with all of the AZ critter groups and has been trusted by those very same groups with large sums of their annual project money to fight the HSUS initiative. I think this is important to keep in mind. If you support the members of ADA, AAA, AEA, etc.. THEY ALL supported CAP. Not saying that's fail-safe logic by no means, but worth considering. While we certainly don't agree on the vehicle we want to take to the party, we do all want to go to the same party... Know what I mean???

 

The question that looms for me is how quickly do we need move? If we move in haste, do we stand to lose our way by selling our wildlife to the highest bidders? If we move too slowly, do we set ourselves years behind while working 10 times harder to undue what a group like HSUS or PETA pushes through while we're still tying to make up our mind? I don't know honestly. I'm too new to this. But I, like many of you, am committed to figuring it out together. My guess... it's going to be somewhere in-between all together, and that includes working with CAP on something nobody is 100% happy with for now.

[CatfishKev]

If Az game and fish had a page on there website addressing the hsus initiative with there own take on what it would have done to the wildlife population here in az would that be political? Seems like they could at least make a statement related to the proposed initiative as to what the detrimental effects would be. I understand they could not actively fight it but making a page on why it's best to let them make wildlife decisions seems pretty legit right? At least if they could do this one thing it would have at least given us hunters something to at least point people to while the battle was still going on. Like if I wanted to hand out flyers at sprouts next to the hippies I could say look here is how game and fish feels about it and have a link to that page along with other scientific data that shows why it would be bad. This war could have even been fought on Facebook if there would have been a link for the undecided to follow from people's fb accounts.

Anybody?

[Nefarious Red]

 

If Az game and fish had a page on there website addressing the hsus initiative with there own take on what it would have done to the wildlife population here in az would that be political? Seems like they could at least make a statement related to the proposed initiative as to what the detrimental effects would be. I understand they could not actively fight it but making a page on why it's best to let them make wildlife decisions seems pretty legit right? At least if they could do this one thing it would have at least given us hunters something to at least point people to while the battle was still going on. Like if I wanted to hand out flyers at sprouts next to the hippies I could say look here is how game and fish feels about it and have a link to that page along with other scientific data that shows why it would be bad. This war could have even been fought on Facebook if there would have been a link for the undecided to follow from people's fb accounts.

Anybody?

yes, that would be political. You can, of course, hand out any material you see fit. We have a group dedicated to doing just that. If you send me a p.m. we can talk about other stuff.

[AZDirtyTaco]

First off Delw, as I have stated, I'm not a part of CAPAZ. But they did bail us out on the mountain lion ban, even though you will not acknowledge it, and attribute it ti angry emails from hunters. As if the biggest anti hunting organization in the U.S. spent millions on the ban, then decided to quit because of angry emails.

 

Second, you are underestimating sportsman support on this. There is a world outside of a few angry voices on this thread. What is going to end up happening is we are going to continue to fight amongst ourselves, and we all are going to lose.

 

Finally, my group is dedicated to fighting HSUS. We owe it to ourselves and to CAPAZ to listen to their proposals and give our input. And if we can do what we need to do without auction tags, I'm all for it.

Nefarious - I gotta say that you're a passionate hombre! Clearly, you've dedicated yourself to our common cause and that is appreciated. The groups we are being attacked by are a special breed and it certainly appears to me at least, that you match up well my man! Lol.. And I mean zero disrespect as I say that.

That approach on the streets and while confronting petitioners goes over just about as well here on this forum as it does there with those petitioners... I would encourage you do try a new cologne and few less actions on the pumper if you're going to garner support from anyone that is less than 150% in line with your take.

[Nefarious Red]

 

First off Delw, as I have stated, I'm not a part of CAPAZ. But they did bail us out on the mountain lion ban, even though you will not acknowledge it, and attribute it ti angry emails from hunters. As if the biggest anti hunting organization in the U.S. spent millions on the ban, then decided to quit because of angry emails.

Second, you are underestimating sportsman support on this. There is a world outside of a few angry voices on this thread. What is going to end up happening is we are going to continue to fight amongst ourselves, and we all are going to lose.

Finally, my group is dedicated to fighting HSUS. We owe it to ourselves and to CAPAZ to listen to their proposals and give our input. And if we can do what we need to do without auction tags, I'm all for it.

 

Nefarious - I gotta say that you're a passionate hombre! Clearly, you've dedicated yourself to our common cause and that is appreciated. The groups we are being attacked by are a special breed and it certainly appears to me at least, that you match up well my man! Lol.. And I mean zero disrespect as I say that.

That approach on the streets and while confronting petitioners goes over just about as well here on this forum as it does there with those petitioners... I would encourage you do try a new cologne and few less actions on the pumper if you're going to garner support from anyone that is less than 150% in line with your take.

azdirtytaco, lots of things went on behind the scenes. As I've said, I can provide you with some very pertinent information. But we have to talk offline for a bit. I can p.m. you my number.

[AZDirtyTaco]

 

If Az game and fish had a page on there website addressing the hsus initiative with there own take on what it would have done to the wildlife population here in az would that be political? Seems like they could at least make a statement related to the proposed initiative as to what the detrimental effects would be. I understand they could not actively fight it but making a page on why it's best to let them make wildlife decisions seems pretty legit right? At least if they could do this one thing it would have at least given us hunters something to at least point people to while the battle was still going on. Like if I wanted to hand out flyers at sprouts next to the hippies I could say look here is how game and fish feels about it and have a link to that page along with other scientific data that shows why it would be bad. This war could have even been fought on Facebook if there would have been a link for the undecided to follow from people's fb accounts.

Anybody?

 

Solid ideas end to end CatfishKev. Can you please email this to Commissioner Davis https://www.azgfd.gov/Contact5.shtml