CouesWhitetail

Nice finds Bret! Must have been a great day! Do you want me to post that picture in the Shed hunting photogallery? If so, let me know. You can just send me an email with some more details if you want. Shane, if Josh doesn't post a response to you soon, just give Josh a call. He has been on the road alot and may not have seen your post. His phone number is : 928-567-6933. Amanda

WOW!!!! What a buck! Thanks for posting the picture Bret! Wonder if that guy had a hard time holding his bow back as that monster walked in front of him! Amanda

Trailmaster cameras have both kinds of set-ups - one is a two piece unit and one is a single unit. The two piece system allows you to be more selective with your target because you can adjust the height of the narrow beam. The one piece unit has a wide beam that catches most anything that moves in front of the camera. I believe you have to use the camera that comes with the Trailmaster system. They have it rigged to match their cables. Jesse's Hunting Page has some excellent info on game cameras, including how to build your own. You can check out that info at Jesse's Hunting Page Camera info Amanda

I have used Trailmaster cameras for work (I'm a biologist) and didn't have any trouble with them due to heat. I did have trouble with the wires that connect the unit getting chewed up by rodents. Some people get around that problem by putting the wire in a little bit of tubing (like PVC). I know other wildlife professionals that have used the Camtrakker and say it's excellent. They use it in the heat of southern AZ and have no problems. That unit has the advantage of being a self contained unit so that no wires get chewed up. Camtrakker also has a digital model. Has anyone used that one? I would love to use a digital remote camera, but don't know of anyone who has used one. I guess they have gotten it so the batteries last much longer now and aren't a big problem. Anyone have experience with any digital remote camera? A friend of mine is looking to get one for a wildlife project and has heard there is a good camera that is cheaper than camtrakker, but hasn't gotten the model yet. If I find out that one, I will let you know. Amanda

Hi Casey, Actually there is a thread already started on this topic under "hunting in Arizona". Please post under that one so we have the info in one place. Thanks! Amanda

I would contact Duwane Adams or Ojo Caliente Outfitters. Even if you are doing your own hunt, I am sure they would be willing to give you some information on how make everything go smoothly. They have hunted in Mexico for years. Click on the links to their websites (which is on the left hand side of each page of my website) for contact info. I am working on getting "how to hunt in Mexico info" on this web site in the future. Amanda

I use a mechanical broadhead by Rocket. What do you think works well for Coues deer?

Craig, Did the fawn look like the fawns in the photo by Josh in the Photogallery live coues deer page 2 ? I thought the cute little twin fawns in the first picture on that page looked really light colored. Other than that photo of light colored fawns, I haven't seen any albinos. I am sure it happens, but they sure couldn't live long. Imagine a white Coues deer trying to hide in the brush! Amanda

Try Topozone.com for free, downloadable topo maps. Also, I very much recommend MyTopo.com for creating your own topo maps. You custom center them anywhere you want and they fold up small. They are printed on waterproof, tear resistant paper. You can create the map online and then they ship it to you very quickly. I have used them for a couple years now, they work great. Click on the MyTopo.com logo on my main page and it will take you there and if you purchase anything a portion of the proceeds goes to this site. Also, if you use topos alot, you may want to buy the state version of the National Geographic topo program. I use that one a ton and find it's excellent. You can read more about them in my bookstore. Amanda

I have been thinking of going to a smaller gun (despite the fact that you guys seem to all be moving toward using canons for Coues!). I have always used a .270 win and I love it. It performs great. But I was shooting with my neighbor the other day and I did some long range shooting with his .243 and I just really enjoyed the accuracy and feel of that gun. It should have enough knock down for Coues, but I was wondering if anyone can give their experience using a .243 for Coues hunting.

Hi Jim, Thanks for the info. How far do you feel comfortable to still have good kill power with your 243 on Coooooooos deer ? Amanda

Hi All, I went with a friend who had a unit 23 tag last Dec. We hunted the area by Roosevelt Lake. The deer density was actually very good. We saw tons of deer and there was a really high buck:doe ratio. However, I would say that the area has been hit hard by drought. It greened up dramatically though after some late winter rain and snow. I also have to say that I think removal of cattle from that area is a good thing for deer and other wildlife over the long term. Lion densities in AZ are likely much higher than they would be if there was no cattle grazing. Taking the cattle off the land will probably cause the lions to eat more deer, although not in direct proportion to the loss of cattle as prey because deer are much harder for lions to kill than cattle. But deer populations are driven more by nutritional condition than they are by predator densities. Nutritional condition of deer is dependent on good rainfall and habitat condition. Deer in good condition will give birth to more fawns and survival of the fawns will be higher. Continuous grazing reduces the diversity and numbers of plants available for deer, thus reducing habitat condition. I would say that in many of the hunt units in AZ, deer hunters take more deer than lions do. Lions definitely eat a lot fo deer, but they can not keep deer herds from increasing. They can, in some cases, slow the deer herd growth. There have been several studies in the Southwest that examine the effect of reducing the density of lions on deer populations. In some cases they reduced the lion population by 50% and the deer did not increase either because they were already at carrying capacity of the habitat or because there was a severed drought which reduced fawn survival. You can read more about the effect of nutrition on Coues in the Coues Biology section. I have also been working on getting a summary of the relevant literature on the effects of predators on deer pops. Good habitat is the key to good populations of animals. Unless you have some isolated population that is under stress from some other variable (like a decline habitat condition), predators are not going to be the major factor controlling population numbers. Amanda

Actually Travis, it was the newest one that is on my main page right now from the White Mtn Res. The one that is 122 and some change without a spread! That is amazing. It was fun to be able to hold them. I am glad Josh swung by my house with them! Hope you find some good sheds Travis! Amanda

Taos, Welcome to CouesWhitetail.com. Have you read through the extensive hunt info I have in the "Where to Hunt" section? That section of my web site has info on how AZ does it's drawing process, the hunt success and draw odds for every unit, maps of every hunt unit in AZ, an overall map of the density of WT in AZ and deer survey data for each unit. You can use all that info to select which unit you want to put in for. Which unit you put in for depends a lot on how badly you want to get a tag. If you really want a tag, then pick a unit based on the draw odds. Some units have 100% draw odds (including Nonresidents). But most of those hunts are early season hunts not during the rut. Most trophy hunters like to hunt the rut because the bigger bucks become more vulnerable. But you certainly can kill big deer in November too. If you are an archery hunter, remember that the archery deer tags in AZ are over the counter. So you can definitely get a tag that way and you have much more flexibilty on where you can hunt with an archery tag. Hope that helps! Amanda

Elkmaniac, Let me introduce myself..... I am Amanda. I am the creator of this web site and a wildlife biologist. Like Allen said I used to work out on the San Carlos. I was there for about 5 years and I must say it's one of the greatest places to hunt anything. Have you considered hiring a tribal guide for your deer hunt? They have the advantage of knowing the area and being able to scout it whenever they want. That might be a great way to make your hunt more productive. You can get a list of guides from the San Carlos Rec and Wildlife Dept. 928-475-2343. When selecting a guide, ask them how many Coues Deer hunters they have guided and ask for references. Not all guides offer outfitting services aslo, so make sure you are clear on what you need. I have hunted Coues deer in Unit A, B, and C, but not unit D. But some areas that I know hold a lot of WT are along the 300 road as you get closer to Ash Creek, East of Eskimazene Ranch. There are quite a lot of WT North and South of this road near the rez boundary. However, several hunters usually camp and hunt around there so I personally might avoid it. Also, you will want to check the rules for hunting around Ash Creek because it used to have a closure to help protect the Desert Bighorn. That closed area within unit D-W should be spelled out in your current regs. If not, call the game Dept and ask the Director, Harold Hofchissey or the chief Game Ranger, Whitman Cassadore. 928-475-2343. You don't want to accidentally hunt in a closed area. Make sure you know the regs. You could try out toward Deer Creek, along the 310 road. But that is a really rough road. It takes forever to drive it. Another spot that I would try for Coues deer in Unit D-W is around Hawk Canyon. There is a road (the 506 road) that goes along that canyon. There are many nice side canyons with WT around there and fewer hunters go in that area I believe. Also, when I was the biologist there we had a list of hunters who were willing to talk to other hunters about their experience hunting on the rez. Those lists were broken out by species and unit. So there was a list of guys who had hunted Unit D-W that were willing to talk to other hunters about their hunt. I don't think they do that anymore, but they may still have an old list around and I bet a lot of the same hunters are hunting it now. This is a long shot though because it may be dept policy not to do this anymore. But call Nate Pamplin, the biologist there now, and ask him if he has any of those lists, even if they are old ones. His number is the same as the one I listed below. You might also just ask Nate's advice on where to go and ask him about the closure for sheep. Chuck Adams killed the world record Pope and Young buck out of Unit D many years ago. The unit has some big deer, although I imagine the drought has kept their growth down in recent years. Hope that helps. Amanda CouesWhitetail.com

Doug, I don't have all the specs that I want. But thanks for offering. There are enough gun shops here in Globe that it wouldn't take me long to find a local, well-priced .243. Amanda

Thanks to everyone for their posts. I will keep my eye out for a used .243. Amanda

Hi Everyone, I just thought I would let you all know that the 1/2 day glassing seminar with Duwane went great. We had about 7 guys from the contest select this as their prize and they enjoyed their outing with Duwane. I went down there too. We went out to a great spot near Duwane's house where you could glass 360 degrees for miles! It was a beautiful morning and we saw lots of deer. Even a group of bucks with one that Duwane thought would score just over 100 inches. I want to go find his sheds!!! Duwane is an excellent glasser and the guys said they learned a lot from him. I have had lots of people suggest that we do a guess the score contest again. What do you think we should have for prizes? Anyone have any connections with some gun shops or equipment retailers that could get them to donate a rifler or something like that? Let me know what you think. Amanda

Jason, I hunted unit 29 several years ago. I hunted both the east and west side of the Chiricahuas. There are a lot of deer, but also tons of hunters. I recommend you stay away from the Rucker canyon area unless you don't mind being shoulder-to-shoulder with other hunters. I scouted that area out and had a great plan for opening day, but then the whole place turned into a city of trailers, generators, atvs and people. I got disgusted and drove to around toward Rodeo NM and went in the horsehsoe canyon road. There were other hunters there, but I managed to find an isolated canyon with a lot of bucks. Nothing big, but at least I brought some venison home! If you like hunting isolated areas there is plenty of it in the wilderness area there. I didn't get a chance to scout that out, but any area with a good sprinkling of springs will hold a lot of deer. Amanda

Jason, If you want info on land ownership, you might want to pick up a copy of the NM Atlas and Gazetteer, which you can buy from my bookstore. It will list land ownership in terms of private, state, or federal. If you have the AZ atlas already, then you know what I am talking about. It is a great resource for planning a trip. Amanda

Jason, You might also talk to the guy who runs Gila Wilderness Hunting. He offers hunt consultations and scouting services for hunts in NM. He helps sponsor this web site and may have some good info for you. You can click on the link for Gila Wilderness Hunting on the left margin of each page of CouesWhitetail.com. Or click here : Gila Wilderness Hunting Another biologist in NM to contact is Barry Hale. His email is in the NM section of the "where to hunt" section of CouesWhitetail.com. Here is the link to that page: Where to hunt section Amanda

Great idea Jeff. I hope we get a bunch of shed hunters to post their fresh finds. Amanda

Greyghost, Unit 23 is a great Coues unit. I believe there is only a December hunt in that unit, no November hunt like most other units so although it is popular, it is not hunted too hard. Unit 23 is known to have produced some huge bucks. The # 3 Nontypical came from there and it netted 155! Check out a photo of that buck in the recordbook section of this web site. I believe Travis' father, Mick, guided the hunter to that buck. I spent a fair amount of time in Unit 23 last season and there is a high buck:doe ratio. I saw lots of mature bucks, not just spikes like you see in other units. I am considering a backpack hunt there with a friend next year. So that pretty much sums up why it's so popular! Lots of deer and big bucks. Amanda

Jeff, Thanks for offering to find out more about the panel. I would be interested and I bet most everyone else here would be too. Jeff, you have to vote in the poll yourself, I can't add votes to it for you. Just click on the message with the poll in it (not this thread) and select your choice. Each person can only vote once. FYI - I deleted Travis' msg because I thought it was a little bit too aggressive on personally attacking you Jeff. I told him you probably wouldn't mind his post, but I did, so I deleted it and explained it all to him. Hopefully he will rephrase some of his comments to you and take you up on your challenge! I would like to ask everyone to please be respectful and refrain from personal attacks in their debates on this forum. But feel free to debate the facts as much as you want and to give opinions on them. Amanda

Casey, I don't know if B&C would give me the story. Maybe they will give me the guys contact info and I can get it from him. I imagine it has been printed in the latest B&C recordbook, but I don't have a copy. If someone has a copy, maybe they could summarize the story. Amanda