JVS

I have said this before, and I'll say it again, but 30 cal is overkill for coues. Go ahead, trash my post. I'll tell you why it's overkill. All you need for coues is ~120-150 grains, right? (some hunter even go lighter...~100 grains) OK, look at the ballistic coefficient for smaller calibers at those grains. You get much more efficiency and a flatter shooting bullet with the .25 to .28 caliber with the same energy. Get a mag or ultra mag at that caliber range and you will have a flat shootin rifle. If you use a 130 grain .30 cal bullet, you have to push it alot faster to keep it as flat as a smaller caliber bullet at that same bullet weight. If you want to use a 165 to 180 grain bullet, go 30 cal. I'm not saying .30 cals shouldn't be used, I'm only saying they are not the most "efficient" coues rifle...

Let's face it, if it generates more $$$, the G&F is gonna do it. They are moving permits to create more tags. Moving the pig tags to fall, which will generate more applicants. Splitting the draw. They say it will give the archery elk and antelope folks time to plan for hunts. Probably a valid point. But why not the deer, buffalo, turkey, etc at the same time? Probably because that would put it in the same pay period! I guess that is OK. My point is...they are looking for our $$$. That is all they want anymore it seems. Man, I have tried for an archery elk tag for 7 years now and still haven't drawn. I'm not alone either. And to learn we are going to lose those tags we have been waiting so long for...What a freakin rip! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the early archery bull and coues hunts were even specified as quality, or high dollar hunts. I think only 5% of tags are going to be high dollar. (Kiabab and early rifle elk tags...) If this is true, we can't credit G&F for giving up high dollar tags to create more hunter opportunity because they aren't planning on giving any high dollar tags up...

hey.... simmer dan. Your gonna piss off Lark because of something I said! I think the state has a few more than 3 guys, but probably not many more. You are right with the fact that they are tied up in politics and bureacracy though. Anyway, I think we are getting carried away here with the bashing. Deer prefer browse...but yes, graze as well at times.

Hold it Lark...State lands Department, patrol??? No way...State lands are beat to death. There's like three guys to patrol the entire state or something ridiculous like that. The state just wants the $$$. Although, I do agree with your comment about the other land departments. BLM, Forest Circus, etc do round up cattle from time to time. That infamous roundup in San Simon (the first roundup fifteen or so years ago) was ramrodded by my pops. Pissed them good ol' Klump boys off till they couldn't see straight. Anyway, the fact of the matter is I think "most" land managing agencies do a pretty good job administering the Taylor Grazing Act. Besides, our deer browse, not graze! What we really need to be pissed about is locked gates! Don't get me started...Got into an area one day during my hunt, and went back the next morning to find it locked!!! Now that's enough to piss off the pope. I think these land management agencies need to focus some energy to access. Who gives a hoot if we have grazed or ungrazed lands...if we can't access it, does it even matter to us?

Dude, I was just tryin to be nice. Look what it got me. I'm gonna be an a$$ from now on. I was actually thinking to myself "who is this wheener". Anyway, take 'er easy,...doe slayer

Josh, Is your last name Eppinger or Epperson? You've got me confused now. Anyway, it sounds like we need to plant more cliffrose and maybe some get some G&F dollars to fund a few feilds of that magic clover they use back east . I think those deer will be fine. They are pretty hearty. I even watched a desert muley munch on some creosote once. Snakeweed, juniper and sage has to be tastier than creosote. But if you really want to shoot a doe Josh, more power to ya . I know, I know. You meant doe tags for the kids...I don't know though Josh, maybe you're right...I'm not a biologist.

Good job guys. As for the ducks on turd ponds. If you shoot 'em off the turd ponds, you've got 'em before they head back to the river to digest their meal . Ya know, all ducks hit those crapper ponds sooner or later. Good luck on your lion hunt.

I tend to agree with coues elk...It's all about shot placement. If you are very confident your son can place the shot behind the shoulder, I think the 22-250 will work with a heavy jacketed bullet. I wouldn't shoot over 300 yards. That little bullet at that distance doesn't carry much of a punch over that distance. A lot of people have killed at over 300, but be careful. A wounded deer is very frustrating and can be difficult for youth to deal with.

OK, I googled it to make sure I wasn't making lies and sounding like an idiot. Here is what I found... The Sonoran Fantail Within the range of Coues white-tailed deer, there is a common misconception that several different local types exist, the most common of which is the notion that there is an extra-small whitetail (Rock, Sinaloan, Sonoran Fantail, Dwarf) that occurs in localized areas of the Southwest. Young deer, with small 3x3 racks, are often the cause of such rumors because observers mistake them for unusually small, mature bucks. Another contributing factor is the wide variation in the color of the back side of the tail of Coues whitetails. The back surface of the tail may appear gray/brown (same as the animal?s back), reddish, blond, very dark brown, or black. These are not different types of deer, but instead are color variations found in some individuals.

I have heard from G&F that there is not two or three different types. They are all the exact same species with a bit of color variation. I guess it also depends on whether you want to be a lumper or splitter. If you play too much with the spliting you might just get the endangered species act involved!!! Careful now, we wouldn't want the feds managing our deer . The splitters have named the mount graham squirrel "endangered", therefore half of mount graham is closed up You have to put the dang squirrel under a microscope to tell the difference between it and the other red squirrels in AZ. Anyway, I have seen a coues with a nearly black tail before. I'm pretty sure it was a cross/hybrid muley. The entire deer was a bit strange, but definitley had the white underside of the tail...

Well, I glassed up a shooter this morning and watched him bed about 8:30. He was about a mile from my glassing point. So, I load myself up with gear, cameras, etc, and set off. I got to where I saw the buck bed, and start glassing. I glassed for about a half hour, and decided to move in closer. Glassed again for a half hour, and moved in closer again. Started to move in closer one more time and the buck had enough and got up and booked it over the mountain!!! Uuggh. I had my camera all set up for the shot, and was within 200 yards, but I just couldn't get him located . I swear he was hiding in a fox hole Lesson learned...Keep on glassin from a distance no matter how impatient you get. I blew a good opportunity at a 100"+ buck. I got some footage of him at 600 yards. I should have been shootin some heck mary bombers instead of filming, but I didn't want to wound him. Oh well, I found 5 sheds while hiking a bazzilion miles today. Nothing too big, but sheds are always fun to find. So, did anyone else get skarood, or am I the only one ?

No way, not next year, I'm going back tomorrow morning. I'll let you know what I find.

Nice buck anyway...Congrats to you Tito.

If that's a coues, I'm the president of PETA. You guys know PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals...

Don't give up on that buck! Try and glass him up again and throw down a stock. If you don;t find him, you might jsut find another good buck. Remember, when they're wounded they will hold VERY tight. You dang near have to poke them out of their beds. I had this exact thing happen to me and I was able to recover the deer. Watched him bed and stocked to within 5 yards of the dang thing before he busted out of the oak brush . Scared me half to death. They can hide like no other when they are wounded.

I don't think my video would pass the quality check! Not top of the line performance from my sony handycam. I thought it would turn out better, but I can barely make out the antlers at that distance:( . Anyway, what are the chances of this buck moving back in by mid-week? From your experience, have you found that bucks will move back into an area soon after being busted out of thier beds?

I didn't read all the posts...Good crap there's alot of them. Anyway, I may repeat what has already been said. I agree completely with the idea of inconsiderate hunters shooting at night, playing music load, etc. That's garbage and I hope anyone reading in this forum doesn't participate in those activities. We have to take into consideration also that other hunts coincide with deer hunts. We should always give the "right of way" to the deer hunter in my opinion, as they have one large animal to find and harvest. Varmits and quail can be found nearly anywhere, anytime. We have to share hunting grounds. Be considerate. Good luck on your upcoming hunts this weekend!

I have seen dang near the same number of fawns as does. Great year. If we have a repeat spring and fawn survival, can you imagine the hunting opportunities in three to four years!

I'd like to know what they expect to do with all this cashflow. Oh yeah, first and foremost, they are politians! No, really, you know they made a killing on the non-res fees this year. A couple of other things to consider....Why do we as hunters and fishermen have to pay for the wooper snapperdoodle studies? If the game and fish wants to manage non-game species, and spend buku bucks doing so, let them change their name to something like... the Seirra Club . I do see the importance of all species, species diversity, etc. Don't get me wrong. But why are we paying for it with ("GAME") fees? Notice the emphasis on game...Oh, and the list of spending goes on and on. What I'd like to see is a detailed, itemized budget for the next few years. Don't we deserve to see EXACTLY where our tag and license fees go?

Congrats on the buck. Amen on the tough part. Amen on the blessing part Ernesto. This year seemed to be the year of the does for us too. I had a similar experience with my buddy's hunt. We took his mom along, and she did not want to hike too far, so we went to an area known for lots of deer, not particularly large deer, but easy access. (she just wanted to fill the tag) Anyway, we glassed a total of 35 deer in a day and a half, and only two bucks! A small forkie and a 3X. My buddy took the 3X. His mom gave up after the first day. We couldn't close the distance in the forkie. We were rather put out by the buck to doe ratio. Bucks were layin low . Oh well, the bright side is nearly every doe had a fawn or two . Give it a couple of years. So like Napolean Dynamite said: "Gosh!!".

Just got back from my father-in-law's antlerless hunt in 5BN. Man was that a circus . Most everyone was curtious and followed the rules, but when you have a brazillion (new word from the dubya joke ) people hunting on a finite number of sq miles, it becomes VERY frustrating!!! People here, people there, people every-freakin-where. Even while hiking we came across lots of people. I know there are Coues hunts that are similar. What do you guys think about coaxing the G&F into splitting up some of these hunts into two different dates??? Hunting around that many people is not just frustrating, it gets right down dangerous.

When your wife sees the bank statement and realizes how much those glasses REALLY cost, you're a dead man. You lied about the price, right? That's what I do, and hope she doesn't follow up on checking the statement. Although, when I lost my card priveledges... Just kidding, I'm not brave enough to lie to my wife. I hope you did though, and I hope the following up part works out for you. Good luck.

Oh man, I never wiped with a mullen (I call it Turkey mullen?) before, but it seems like those leaves have millions of tiny hairs. Would it have the same effect as fiberglass? That could be devastating. It might be better to wipe with the cob end .

Yeah, they increased from 200 to 300. It seemed like it didn't matter where we went, there were people. Not only hunters, but campers. I know, they have every right to be there, but I saw some pretty inconsiderate campers. One guy and his wife were strolling in a meadow just before dusk. Probably PETA . Anyway, 5BN has been split up into sub-units, but the sub-units have 140 tags at the same time... On the other hand, with all the commotion we were at least able to fill a tag . I think we ought to have some splitting of some coues hunts. Nothing more frustrating than sharing a canyon with two or three other hunters.

Got my camp staked out, for the third time, and I'm now on my fourth first morning spot. I can't make up my mind!!! I haven't seen herds of deer, but decent numbers. At least it's not a question of "I wonder where the deer are this year?" Anyway, firstcoueswas80, where is your cow hunt? My father-in-law has the 5bn hunt starting tomorrow. If you have unit 5bn, look for a 4-door f-250 in blue and silver with an elk in the back . We should shoot the bull.