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bonecollector777

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Posts posted by bonecollector777

  2. Posted · Report reply

    I was at the meeting. I saw a lot of animosity. I saw lots of people trying to win arguments. I saw old wounds being opened. It was pretty sad.. Let's start planning forward like we do for the next hunting season. That being said, I misread the purpose of this meeting. I did not know we were going to argue about how to raise money. So when you folks are done arguing, call me. I am interested in educating non-hunters.

    Haha Pete is that you?
    • Like 1

  3. Posted · Report reply

    Most board members seemed at least interested with our ideas (whether they truly were or not is yet to be seen) Pete made it very clear he was just there as a formality. He even looked like he was sleeping at some points and only responded to people by calling them fools or that they should implement the ideas themselves. Even after somebody told him we are simply giving alternatives to the tag grab. He was very rude and unprofessional and made it clear hes going for the tags no matter what we say. I forget his name, but the one running the meeting seemed to do a good job at letting everyone speak. For the most part the board seemed to agree that most people dont want auction tags and very few are okay with raffle tags. I made the point that their cheaper "auction" tags wouldn't bring in more than a couple hundred thousand dollars. I would bet a few desirable raffle tags would bring in more money. So far the best and simplest idea that would bring in several million dollars is the license fee increase. A lot of ideas were given but the commission meeting on May 4th will really show us if they care what we said.

    • Like 1

  5. Posted · Report reply

    I agree there is a need to fight HSUS but I'm not in agreement that we have to jump into something as fast as CAPAZ is making it sound. They're portraying it like by 2020 we wont have hunting anymore which is just a scare tactic to jump on their bandwagon.

     

    I think the best plan yet was the idea that Colorado and Michigan already implemented. We have plenty of time to get something like that in position.

     

    I think using tags should be a last resort. NOT the first and only resort like CAPAZ is wanting. The stamp or fee proposed would raise plenty of money as is. Mix that with the Colorado and Michigan plan and you've got what you need. But if it came down to it as a last resort I wouldn't mind a few raffle tags. With a limit on number of tickets per person.

     

    I dont know why anyone is for auction tags at all when there are so many other options to raise some money. I truly and honestly believe CAPAZ is pushing for auction tags because they know some of the wealthy guys buying the tags will thank them with donations. I base that off or some thing Pete has said regarding guys ready to write million dollar checks.

    • Like 1

  6. Posted · Report reply

    Blake, I have told you I agreed with your survey. Thank you .

     

    I have a few questions. 1. Are people able to answer the survey multiple times? 2. I know you put this survey in front of what is possibly tens of thousands of hunters. Do you think the fact that there were only 137 responses underlines a big problem in Arizona, and that is a general lack of participation?

     

    I know I am quite dismayed that there are not at least a couple thousand responses. None the less, thank you for all your efforts.

     

    *edit* When you combine the total number of people that do not want any type of new tag or any auction tag, and then you combine the total number of people that want an auction of raffle tag of some sort, the results are 68 to 61 in a survey that had 137 responses, not to include the 8 people that answered "other".

    It was set to be able to only answer once per person. It was posted here and a few facebook pages but no way to tell how many people it actually reached. I was hoping for a couple hundred not thousands as I knew it wouldn't get spread state wide.

     

    As for the numbers. I'd read it as half of the people dont want any tags at all and most of the other half are ok with raffle tags. And I'm fine with that. But you CAN see the overwhelming majority don't want auction tags. And that's the point I was hoping would be made.

    • Like 1

  12. Posted · Report reply

     

    AZkiller- when you say you know the AZG&F is on board what does that mean? Is the commission already in the tank for the auction tag idea or are you referring to a general agreement on the need for funding? I know the new group will be at the commission meeting on May 4th so hope someone can attend that meeting and report back to us.

    I know that they welcome any group wanting to legitimately help them fight the antis and right now there is one so..
    So that's the answer? The first and only group that has approached them in the week since HSUS pulled out is the golden ticket to saving us all? The one group that can't think of anything but using our tags? Or can I start up one and get some auction tags too?
    • Like 1

  20. Posted · Report reply

     

     

    I thought someone was saying earlier that this was needed because Game and Fish can't use funds for politics? Now it is 100% of funds go to G&F for education? Something is not adding up on this. I agree with the $5 education stamp and would pay it, but just like the HSUS they will be back trying to get more tags again in a few years

    As I understood it, there are two pools of money at hand.

     

    Pool 1 would be generated by the auction/raffle tags tags or ??? and GnF would receive 100% of that and it should be earmarked for education. As stated before, G&F has to follow guidelines as to what they can put out on billboards and the like. It would be interesting to see how restrictive these guidelines are because it's going to be hard to "educate" people with your hands tied when you are really trying to fight a group with very deep pockets that can and will say anything to further their agenda.

     

    Pool 2 would be used/controlled by C&P and could be used for political activities. Unless I missed it, the funding for this pool was only mentioned briefly in a response to a question asked by an attendee and it sounded like it would consist of primarily donations.

     

    I would like to know what if anything the donors are asking for or have been offered by C&P?

     

    Personally I'm leaning toward the dollar or two added to licenses and then maybe another dollar to application or tag fees as a way to fund the "education" portion.

     

    I would also like to hear more from G&F regarding the necessity of this funding. Do they feel they need to generate 2M annually? I know it's being treated as "preventative maintenance" at this point and I think it's an issue that should be addressed, and soon.

    The pool 2 you speak of HAS to come from donations only. No money from any tag or stamp or license can go to "pool 2". Therefore the tags being auctioned are not needed. The $5 stamp will raise their money. They have to depend on donations and raising money through raffles etc.

     

    I'm sure these rich guys would love to donate a little money to CAPAZ but only if they get the tags in return.

    • Like 2

  21. Posted · Report reply

    This is my 15th year hunting the San Carlos Reservation. I was able to harvest a very nice bird. I know that all of you who love Spring Turkey Hunting so much that you are willing to pay $250.00 to hunt these birds must have noticed the changes this year. This has been the toughest year ever. I BELIEVE THIS IS DUE TO THREE HUNTS. I think they have taken a page out of Arizona Game and Fish handbook of over hunting and pray that the 30% success doesn't over achieve. I I encourage anyone that hunts there to send back their Questionnaire and request that they stop this practice. We all pay more to have the ability to call to birds that are less pressured. I believe 3 hunts will ruin this great hunt.

    I think Turkey hunting in general is just tough this year. Hardly gobbling anywhere.
    • Like 1

  22. Posted · Report reply

     

     

     

    I was there. The C&P crowd did not seem real receptive to people saying they were not in support of the idea. Dissenting opinions were characterized as "Criticism". There is a meeting at Bass Pro fine gun room Monday as stated above.

     

    Didn't seem to me that there was much brainstorming for new ideas, although several commenters provided suggestions. I have a few more ideas. In the meantime, we need to get out and speak up. Please fill up the meeting on Monday. Remember that we cannot be at each others throats, rather we need to be appreciative of those who carried the flag during the HSUS fight and who do the bulk of the heavy lifting in the state's conservation efforts. Instead, we need to come with solutions and be willing to pitch in to help with those solutions.

     

    Ultimately, I am not sure that everyone at C&P cares what we have to say, but I hope to be proven wrong. And in the meantime, I will take my voice elsewhere. The commission meeting in May will be important, the commissioners need to see that there is support, otherwise we are left to be represented by those who do speak up.

     

    Hope to see everyone on Monday.

    I'll be there Monday. My brother said he showed up a little late tonight. Said any questioning of motives or disagreements was treated very defensively rather than looked at as trying to come up with different ideas. Said the guy that came up with the $2 habitat stamp had the board stumped like they never thought that was a possibility (or they dont want it a possibility) add a $5 stamp or license increase on all licenses and they'll have money coming out of their ears and the tags can be left alone. If they insist on the tags its obvious their one mission is the tags and only the tags.

    Who was your brother? The habitat stamp idea works. I will say that I don't think that everyone on C&P is in it to get more tags to rich people, but I do believe the rich people have them persuaded.

     

    The question asked if I opposed the current raffle / auction model, I don't know that I have ever considered it because it has always existed in my memory. After some thought my question is this, where does it stop? We could certainly raise more money for conservation if we auctioned every tag to the highest bidder but then our model would cease to exist. I do not believe that the integrity of the model is worth sacrificing for any mount of money. I believe there are other ways.

    Big guy 6'4". Assume he would have been wearing a hat and think he had his gf with him. Blonde haired girl. He showed up 20-30 minutes late and didnt know what had been asked so he didnt ask anything.

     

    I've asked the same thing about where does this stop? Has to be a goal and when its reached its gotta stop. Give them unlimited power they're never gonna stop. Like you said if were just in it for money then heck yeah auction them all off to the highest bidder but that's not the goal. I'm saying slap a $5 education stamp on the licenses and call it a day. Assuming they can prove that's what the money will be used for and not more new trucks.

    • Like 2

  23. Posted · Report reply

    I was there. The C&P crowd did not seem real receptive to people saying they were not in support of the idea. Dissenting opinions were characterized as "Criticism". There is a meeting at Bass Pro fine gun room Monday as stated above.

     

    Didn't seem to me that there was much brainstorming for new ideas, although several commenters provided suggestions. I have a few more ideas. In the meantime, we need to get out and speak up. Please fill up the meeting on Monday. Remember that we cannot be at each others throats, rather we need to be appreciative of those who carried the flag during the HSUS fight and who do the bulk of the heavy lifting in the state's conservation efforts. Instead, we need to come with solutions and be willing to pitch in to help with those solutions.

     

    Ultimately, I am not sure that everyone at C&P cares what we have to say, but I hope to be proven wrong. And in the meantime, I will take my voice elsewhere. The commission meeting in May will be important, the commissioners need to see that there is support, otherwise we are left to be represented by those who do speak up.

     

    Hope to see everyone on Monday.

    I'll be there Monday. My brother said he showed up a little late tonight. Said any questioning of motives or disagreements was treated very defensively rather than looked at as trying to come up with different ideas. Said the guy that came up with the $2 habitat stamp had the board stumped like they never thought that was a possibility (or they dont want it a possibility) add a $5 stamp or license increase on all licenses and they'll have money coming out of their ears and the tags can be left alone. If they insist on the tags its obvious their one mission is the tags and only the tags.

    • Like 5
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