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bonecollector777

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Posts posted by bonecollector777


  1. And if lions aren't being killed who is gonna pay 250k for an auction tag

    They're already not paying 250k for an auction tag. Two tags from last year and this year have been 175k and 145k for the elk. Also what do you think the price of the auction tags are gonna drop to when the rich guy can buy a unit 23 two week long elk hunt for $30k or a two week long strip tag for $40k? Why drop 300k on a year long one if I can drop 40k on a shorter one and still kill my giant buck.

  2. How many of you on here with all these questions are going to attend the ADA meeting tomorrow evening, to ask your questions and voice your concerns in person? Ringer? WhtMtnHunter? OpticNerd? AzDirtyTaco? GreyGhost85? BoneCollector? Idgaf?

    Working tomorrow and Wednesday at the fire department unfortunately but have already passed on my questions to a member who will be there asking lots of questions. Are you gonna be there heather?

    Hoping for many more meetings to be held so I can make a few.

    • Like 1

  3. Blake...Please direct your questions to them either through e mail or call them or attend a Q And A session.....This is my understanding of the concept and I have made it very clear I am not part of the group!!!!

     

    It does not matter what I say or what info I bring to the site....I get my head kicked in by someone...

    I'm not kicking anyone's head in. I'm trying to clarify if what I read was correct because it blew my mind. This things going downhill fast. It was one thing to be able to convince people with the part about this money would be used to fight HSUS and now we know it cant. How do they expect people to get on their side with an approach like this? Just getting sketchier and sketchier. And this is coming from one of the few that actually wanted to give this a chance.
    • Like 1

  4. I will try and answer the question to the best of my knowledge.....I someone finds differently please post it....

    I was told this morning that there are two groups......One is conserve and protect and the other one is conserve and Protect Arizona.

    I dont know what the difference is !!!!

     

    The one that is proposing this will take the funds generated and give all 100% of the monies raised to the department. Something similar to the HPC model this money would be used to educate the public on the importance of the dept Ect.....there would be a board of individuals much like the HPC board that would with the department decide how to best spend the money

     

    The other group is on their own to raise money to do the other work that needs to be done....Apparently through banquet, non tag raffles private donations and monies donated by the current wildlife organizations Ect....

     

    Can someone PLEASE attend a meeting or make a call and see what they can find out...

    So to get it straight NONE of the money generated by the tags will actually be able to fight the political fight that they say we desperately need money to fight? All the money generated by the tags will go to the education side of things and then we just hope the rich guys donate a bunch of money to CAPAZ to be able to fight the political stuff?
    • Like 2

  5.  

     

     

    You should have left option 4 not required. as it stands right now you have to answer it in order to complete the vote on the other questions.

    option 4 has the capability of being used for the benefit of any group to mislead.

    So far that answer has been overwhelmingly (75%) leaning towards having regular citizens on the board as well. 11 have answered other and give different answers and why. Only three have suggested leaving it as is. Total of 54 responses right now. Hoping to get into the hundreds tomorrow.

    I'll try to clarify it a little better.

     

    with question number 4 being required to click on something in order to have your vote counted, I wont do the survey just because of that question.

    heres why.

    If this does pass, should the board be made up of current members or should a few members be citizens with a passion to protect hunting that don't have any affiliation to any of the current wildlife organizations on board?

     

     

     

    Only current board members

     

    Add a few citizens without any affiliation to current wildlife organizations currently on the board.

     

    Other (please specify)

    groups will over look the questions that are negitive to there case, but will use these answers to help there case. by manipulating it.

    sneaky pete and his band of merry men will come up with something like. " in recent polls we have found that xxx amount of hunters prefer to Add a few citizens without any affiliation to current wildlife organizations currently on the board. "

    or xxx amount of hunters prefer to use "Only current board members "

     

    polls are a dangerous tool to use if not worded directly and to the point. and they can still be skewed to benefit the group that people may not want.

    If seen this done many times with the AZG&F commission over the years on the fisheries side trying to get something through that normal people didnt want . but yet the group manipulated the questions and answers to mean something else.

    a close EX friend used MY fishing board to do the very same thing in a poll and at the G&F meetings showed the papers of said poll to show the commission that most people were in favor of it. which they werent cause of the way it was worded.

     

    not saying you did this intentionally.

    I see where you're coming from but I felt the option for other would offset anything people didnt like about the no and yes answers. Today it's at 83 people and still 85%+ saying we need some sort of normal citizen with a proven history of hunting.

     

    I could have worded the question better but was trying to get an idea if most people trust these 8 current people on board to make the decisions of where the money goes or if they thought a couple of outsiders maybe just two or three would help balance out any mishandling of funds or going overboard on tag numbers.


  6. You should have left option 4 not required. as it stands right now you have to answer it in order to complete the vote on the other questions.

    option 4 has the capability of being used for the benefit of any group to mislead.

    So far that answer has been overwhelmingly (75%) leaning towards having regular citizens on the board as well. 11 have answered other and give different answers and why. Only three have suggested leaving it as is. Total of 54 responses right now. Hoping to get into the hundreds tomorrow.

  7. I wasn't screaming about tag fees. I said double them if you need to. The tag fees are a bargain as it is right now. If raising tag fees kept the " few" from benefiting from this tag grab I would pay double tomorrow. Triple the auction tags and have them go to a raffle. We could all play bingo together at the convention with fist fulls of raffle tickets. One table a plumber jumps up with the number called for a tag , and the next table a billionaire jumps up winning his called number. Everyone having fun together sounds great. Why not??

    I like it.

  8. I made up this quick survey today to try and collect everyone's thoughts in one place so this info can be taken to the commission and board. I know all of us cant make it to the meetings so I feel that this will be a good tool to see exactly where people sit on the subject. I did 5 questions but I'm sure I forgot some important stuff so if anyone wants me to add a question I'll try and do it if it allows me to. Share it with whomever you please and I'll collect the data and pass it on in upcoming meetings that I can make it to. The more responses the better we will be able to see what people want. I've stated my position but feel that this survey gives plenty of options to get everyone's thoughts on the subject whether for or against it.

     

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MVRXNHF

    • Like 3

  9. Blake...Please contact the Dept and find out what their education budget is and how it was dispersed.....

     

    Then ask what percentage of sportsman check the box on the app and donate extra money to the dept and what that total is.

     

    Then ask why they didnt do more on the HSUS fight and in educating the states residents on the subject.

     

    Please find out what their plan for education is from this point forward.....

    little too late to do the right thing now isnt it? Our department should have made education a priority with the millions they receive in funding. Their education budget may have been low but who's fault is that? Theirs. They have all the power to put whatever money they please towards educating people. But they relaxed and didnt think they needed to. Well guess what? Now they know they needed to. And to fix it quick they offer up our tags as sacrifice. I'd bet if every employee at game and fish took a $1000 pay cut and wardens didnt get new trucks every year they'd have all the money they'd ever want for education. But that will never happen. Instead let's use publics tags to make up for us being stupid and lazy.
    • Like 1

  10. One other interestings thing I have been thinking is the conserve and protect Arizona group has already said that they don't want to take 1 of the auction tags or raffle tags for this cause. Because that money goes to the HPC fund. Wouldn't it be more important to use that money to save our hunting rights like you guys claim rather than using all of it for habitat projects? After all what is the purpose of habitat helping animals if we lose the right to hunt them? The value of animals will go down significantly if we lose our hunting rights so I would think at least splitting the money half-and-half for habitat projects and the other half for education and political fights would be more than fair. And it would raise plenty of money with the additional raffle tags to get the job done.

    • Like 1

  11. Blake...I have made my thoughts very clear in are conversations. You know my stance I also made it very clear Im not part of conserve and protect but I know the players very well. I also made it clear there is no plan in place just a concept and that I had not listened to the pod cast prior to are conversation so I had no idea what was said in them. You are well aware Im not for the kings deer concept.....But I am in favor of a plan that will raise the funds needed to fight the fight whatever that fight looks like....

     

    The current wildlife organizations are taxed in what they can do....All the work that gets done is done by volunteers!!!!

    They ALL put up a huge amount of money to fight off HSUS....THEY ARE the people do the work behind the scenes so that the average sportsman can enjoy the sport. And there are almost NO new volunteers coming in....You all ask why you always see the same names pop up...Its because they have been involved for yrs and there is NO ONE else that is willing to do ANYTHING....

     

    If every sportsman in Az gave 20.00 Dollars a year we would never have this conversation. But they wont give a dime...

    There are 27 #### pages of you and everyone else on the site screaming about the Dept raising tag fees a few yrs back. You all were gonna be living in a card board box down in the river because of it. Now you want the dept to add a special fee to fight the fight !!!!

     

    Ultimately it does not matter what the Dept or any wildlife organizations proposed the average sportsman is going to complain. Its what they do best !!! Someone is getting screwed or not getting theres , someone might have an advantage the list goes on and on

    Has there ever been an account set up for sportsman to donate $20 to this specific cause? No. . So you don't know how much would be donated to the cause. Last I checked all of us donate several hundred if not thousands of dollars in draws, app fees, raffle tags, donations to raffles of each organization etc. . All the while here we thought game and fish was using atleast some of our money for education just to find out they weren't. Who knows what it was spent on but its obvious they didnt care to try and use it to educate people. I understand the part they cant use it for political fights but youd think maybe they'd use some to try and inform the public about their cause and purpose. But alas they DIDNT. Now the story line is we have to raise more money RIGHT NOW or were going down. Well why didnt the game and fish look out for hunters in the years leading up to this? They got their tag and license fee raises but what changed? Extra new truck? They apparently don't realize we don't give them money to simply pay them. We give them money to protect wildlife and help our cause through education.

     

    You keep saying hunting is a right and not a privilege. Wrong. Hunting is as much a right as is breathing air. The government simply came in and told you it was a right by making you buy a license or tag. They're obviously a necessary entity but being the ones taking our money seems like they would have put forth more of an effort to protect our hunting by educating people. But they didnt and now the responsibility falls on other groups to make up for it. And our tags are what's going to be sacrificed in this nonsense. Like I said raffle tags will be supported by most but auction tags will be heavily disliked by most. That's the biggest and most important part of this. NO AUCTION TAGS.

    • Like 1

  12. Someone please show me where SFW and conserve and protect are one in the same. Hard facts not personal opinions or hearsays. SFW takes an enormous amount of money and refuses to show where it goes and who gets paid....if Im not mistaken conserve and protect has repeatedly said 100% of monies raised go possibly to a fund similar to the HPC fund and it is put on by a group of volunteers and NO one gets paid. Please show all of us where Don Peay has any thing to do with this....

     

    Blake....If you and all the other are so concerned about the group that is pushing this but you admit you see a need for a fundraising source WHY dont you and a group of trusted sportsman takeover the cause or start your own fundraising initiatives.....

     

    Please be the guys that stops the bad man from taking your tags!!!!

     

    Please tell us why

    Dave you keep going to that about well why don't you do it? How about instead of making a whole separate group from nothing, we use the already formed groups that people know like you guys are doing and just do raffle tags? I've never said that your guys goal is a bad thing. I'm simply asking start with raffle tags before jumping to auction tags. But when I talk to you on the phone several times and you say oh no no there wont be any auction tags. And if there are it will be one of the current auction tags already. Then Pete straight up says we need auction tags and were gonna have them because they bring in more money. That's the whole point why people aren't going to support this. No shortcuts for rich people to get tags. Raffle off more tags if needed. Every dam week the elk and deer society raffle off swaros and sell out in a few hours. Why cant this group do the same on top of the raffle tags? I'm not saying what you guys are doing is bad but simply giving my opinion that we don't need auction tags. If no auction tags I'll support this til the end. But when auction tags are in the mix its gonna be a no from the majority.
    • Like 3
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