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Hunt proposal, more limited archery units

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7 minutes ago, bowhunter4life said:

Yes I did and I also put in for a public records request to obtain the statistical information. 

Nice!  

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Apparently none of you listened to or understood the radio cast of Jim Heffelfinger explaining how the science of animal management works.  You DONT have the knowledge and understanding of wildlife biology that he does.  DONT!  

Edited by ThomC
Sorry Jim I lost my glasses.

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2 minutes ago, ThomC said:

Apparently none of you listened to or understood the radio cast of Jim Hellelfinger explaining how the science of animal management works.  You DONT have the knowledge and understanding of wildlife biology that he does.  DONT!  

Who is Jim Hellelfinger?

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4 minutes ago, ThomC said:

Apparently none of you listened to or understood the radio cast of Jim Hellelfinger explaining how the science of animal management works.  You DONT have the knowledge and understanding of wildlife biology that he does.  DONT!  

You don't have the knowledge to even get the guys name right so I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt. Jim Heffelfinger apparently is the end all be all to the data. He did however once say that deer in Central AZ (not Northern AZ) begin rutting mid November and are done by mid December so take that for what it's worth. 

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58 minutes ago, Desertguide said:

Then why even have a public comment period? 

because they have to by law

50 minutes ago, 68OLDS said:

Ya I’m not too sure what delw means by this?

What I mean is we cant go by public surveys on results. because people will lie on the survey if they can find a way to benifit them IE more tags. 

for example

did you tag a deer in XXXX

What unit.

How many days did you hunt

etc etc

All these answers can be manipulated By hunters to increase/decrease tags in units. when compared to the G&f 's.

1f 75% of the people lie say they didnt kill any animals or didnt see any animals, it could raise a flag saying leave the unit alone like it is as hunter success is very low(could go the opposite way also)

if 75% of the people lie say they killed bucks in the unit and and the G&F data shows it was a low year for deer, they may reduce tags or shut the unit down for certain seasons.

also hunter surveys are flawed in a sense that there are people that hunt and hunt hard see a ton of elk/ deer and dont shoot anything because they didnt see what the wanted.

hunters and fishermen know how to play the system and they will play that system to get more tags ie a better chance of hunting., they will use it to there advantage even if it means falsely filling out surveys.

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9 minutes ago, ThomC said:

Really, spelling is all you know?

Spelling is certainly something you don't know, but even more interesting you think one guy that works for the game and fish (that doesn't want the game and fish to look bad) has the final say on the topic. 

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6 minutes ago, Delw said:

What I mean is we cant go by public surveys on results. because people will lie on the survey if they can find a way to benifit them IE more tags. 

Oh okay was a little confused on what you were getting at there.

So if we can’t go by public surveys, what would be the alternative solution to go about gathering accurate harvest data?

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2 minutes ago, 68OLDS said:

Oh okay was a little confused on what you were getting at there.

So if we can’t go by public surveys, what would be the alternative solution to go about gathering accurate harvest data?

I know how, make them mandatory and if you are caught lying on one, you loose your license for 5 years. There fixed.

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1 hour ago, Desertguide said:

Going back to the NR draw idea...

We have quite a few clients that come every year to hunt with us in Jan that are also building points. I can't imagine NR's that are building points being willing to burn them on an archery rut hunt. I would bet that less than half of the NR's who currently come for the OTC hunts would apply for the same hunt if it went to a draw. Maybe even closer 1/3. That's a pretty good loss in revenue. 

If only 50% of the NR’s were hunting archery deer that would put us back at 2017 levels.

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30 minutes ago, 68OLDS said:

Oh okay was a little confused on what you were getting at there.

So if we can’t go by public surveys, what would be the alternative solution to go about gathering accurate harvest data?

I dont think there is any way for accurate information on harvest data. short of having  road blocks 24/7 in every unit.

now now on top of all that you have other factors that take wildlife through out the year. predators, weather poachers road kills etc etc so you really cant get accurate information of what the animal population is. I believe that G&F is using the best likely Data they get by there own surveys they do has they have years and years of that data to compare it to. also very easy to go back and look at drought years wet years high predator years etc etc. Deer and elk are easy to fix if they over do the tags or under do them. Because there are so many animals.

bighorn, lopes are smaller numbers so just just a small mistake in numbers can effectively wipe out a good population.

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2 hours ago, Desertguide said:

Going back to the NR draw idea...

We have quite a few clients that come every year to hunt with us in Jan that are also building points. I can't imagine NR's that are building points being willing to burn them on an archery rut hunt. I would bet that less than half of the NR's who currently come for the OTC hunts would apply for the same hunt if it went to a draw. Maybe even closer 1/3. That's a pretty good loss in revenue. 

Well in that case, those that want that hunt will have a higher quality hunt and whatever tags remain can go into the leftover scrum. I don't really see an issue with that. 

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1 hour ago, huntlines said:

New Mexico is the same way, no harvest report from the previous year, not eligible for current draw. It’s not hard for them and should not be here in Az.

I would be 100% in favor of this. 

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52 minutes ago, Delw said:

because they have to by law

What I mean is we cant go by public surveys on results. because people will lie on the survey if they can find a way to benifit them IE more tags. 

for example

did you tag a deer in XXXX

What unit.

How many days did you hunt

etc etc

All these answers can be manipulated By hunters to increase/decrease tags in units. when compared to the G&f 's.

1f 75% of the people lie say they didnt kill any animals or didnt see any animals, it could raise a flag saying leave the unit alone like it is as hunter success is very low(could go the opposite way also)

if 75% of the people lie say they killed bucks in the unit and and the G&F data shows it was a low year for deer, they may reduce tags or shut the unit down for certain seasons.

also hunter surveys are flawed in a sense that there are people that hunt and hunt hard see a ton of elk/ deer and dont shoot anything because they didnt see what the wanted.

hunters and fishermen know how to play the system and they will play that system to get more tags ie a better chance of hunting., they will use it to there advantage even if it means falsely filling out surveys.

One entity benefits the most from having the max amount of tags sold.

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