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Hunt proposal, more limited archery units

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38 minutes ago, AZBIG10 said:

One entity benefits the most from having the max amount of tags sold.

yes and no. should be rephrased to say the most tags sold and still have resources for for years to come.

Remember a few years back everyone was complaining in the deer section about the 7 rifle hunts(including youth hunts) and 3 OTC archery hunts for unit 20C I think there was 1500+ tags along for the permit hunts and lots of people during archery. people were complaining because they couldnt find deer. we never had a day we didnt see a half dozen or so bucks and tons of does. went out last year just yote hunting and found deer and bucks everywhere same numbers didnt seem to really effect them. but thats west of the top of yarnell hill to the freeway 89? (that goes from wickenburg to wikiup). as we never hunted the top or east of yarnell hill most of those deer were seen right off the dirt road in the valley that goes north and south  and some side roads. as well as right off the freeway.

we hunted there for yotes deer and pig for years and years was out there every weekend and some weekdays for years just killin  yotes/and fox's

so yeah I think G&F knows what there doing with there data models

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56 minutes ago, Delw said:

I dont think there is any way for accurate information on harvest data. short of having  road blocks 24/7 in every unit.

now now on top of all that you have other factors that take wildlife through out the year. predators, weather poachers road kills etc etc so you really cant get accurate information of what the animal population is. I believe that G&F is using the best likely Data they get by there own surveys they do has they have years and years of that data to compare it to. also very easy to go back and look at drought years wet years high predator years etc etc. Deer and elk are easy to fix if they over do the tags or under do them. Because there are so many animals.

bighorn, lopes are smaller numbers so just just a small mistake in numbers can effectively wipe out a good population.

?????

So who’s fault is it that predators are a problem? Banning trapping, introduced wolves and banning predator contest just to name a few.

As for vehicle collisions with animals, this isn’t a huge issue and won’t go any further with it.

Weather plays a huge roll but I won’t blame this on anyone but the man up stairs.

Harvest data could be very instrumental in determining the over all health of a population if someone would grow the balls to enact meaningful ways of obtaining it. I can only conclude G&F doesn’t care about accurate data because they turn a blind eye to mandatory reporting. Change my mind. And don’t give me the bull crap about turning hunters off by mandating it....

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What do they lose by conducting mandatory reporting for archery deer kills?Absolutely nothing.

modern problems require modern solutions.

 

 

 

 

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Fawn recruitment was abysmal last year.  Not sure if that’s been mentioned, I didn’t read all 11 pages.  I just hope rifle hunters bear some of the burden, too.

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46 minutes ago, huntlines said:

?????

So who’s fault is it that predators are a problem? Banning trapping, introduced wolves and banning predator contest just to name a few.

As for vehicle collisions with animals, this isn’t a huge issue and won’t go any further with it.

Weather plays a huge roll but I won’t blame this on anyone but the man up stairs.

Harvest data could be very instrumental in determining the over all health of a population if someone would grow the balls to enact meaningful ways of obtaining it. I can only conclude G&F doesn’t care about accurate data because they turn a blind eye to mandatory reporting. Change my mind. And don’t give me the bull crap about turning hunters off by mandating it....

Strong opinions on the board this afternoon, good to see folks passionate about issues which are important to them.

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49 minutes ago, huntlines said:

?????

So who’s fault is it that predators are a problem? Banning trapping, introduced wolves and banning predator contest just to name a few.

As for vehicle collisions with animals, this isn’t a huge issue and won’t go any further with it.

Weather plays a huge roll but I won’t blame this on anyone but the man up stairs.

Harvest data could be very instrumental in determining the over all health of a population if someone would grow the balls to enact meaningful ways of obtaining it. I can only conclude G&F doesn’t care about accurate data because they turn a blind eye to mandatory reporting. Change my mind. And don’t give me the bull crap about turning hunters off by mandating it....

I never said any of theses were anyones fault.

I said they play a parts in animal populations, aka variables when G&F is making there decisions.

Harvest data by hunters is UNRELIABLE if the data is truthful or not. why would you use UNRELIABLE DATA for something.

I never said hunters will be turned off my  mandating that. I personaly dont care if they set up road blocks and checked.

AGAIN I will repeat it Harvest Data by hunters is unreliable because the lie to make numbers look good.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, AZBIG10 said:

What do they lose by conducting mandatory reporting for archery deer kills?Absolutely nothing.

modern problems require modern solutions.

 

 

 

 

Unless you subscribe to one member’s outlandish opinion on this thread..that we all need to be biologists/economists otherwise we are totally clueless and our viewpoints are irrelevant!!!

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40 minutes ago, huntlines said:

Harvest data could be very instrumental in determining the over all health of a population if someone would grow the balls to enact meaningful ways of obtaining it. I can only conclude G&F doesn’t care about accurate data because they turn a blind eye to mandatory reporting. Change my mind. And don’t give me the bull crap about turning hunters off by mandating it....

The problem with data is... Garbage in, garbage out...  Many hunters will provide total crap when asked for info. (I wonder how many elk hunters would say they wounded 5 bulls and tagged none)

Weather, bullets, lions, cars, bears, wolves, disease, starvation, yotes and arrows all kill deer.  G&F can see how many made it through each year, roughly, without any input from anyone. As I see it, their job is to tweak the knobs on the controls that they can to try and maintain the populations they want. All the while, trying to please 15 different groups at the same time.

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1 minute ago, Delw said:

I never said any of theses were anyones fault.

I said they play a parts in animal populations, aka variables when G&F is making there decisions.

Harvest data by hunters is UNRELIABLE if the data is truthful or not. why would you use UNRELIABLE DATA for something.

 

 

Unfortunately at this point it’s all we got though right?  I mean what else are you proposing we use to come up with “reliable” harvest data.  You gotta work work with tools you’re given sometimes...

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1 minute ago, Ohthatguy said:

The problem with data is... Garbage in, garbage out...  Many hunters will provide total crap when asked for info. (I wonder how many elk hunters would say they wounded 5 bulls and tagged none)

Weather, bullets, lions, cars, bears, wolves, disease, starvation, yotes and arrows all kill deer.  G&F can see how many made it through each year, roughly, without any input from anyone. As I see it, their job is to tweak the knobs on the controls that they can to try and maintain the populations they want. All the while, trying to please 15 different groups at the same time.

Exactly

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1 minute ago, 68OLDS said:

Unfortunately at this point it’s all we got though right?  I mean what else are you proposing we use to come up with “reliable” harvest data.  You gotta work work with tools you’re given sometimes...

I'm not proposing anything, other than saying whats wrong with harvest data by hunters.

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7 minutes ago, 68OLDS said:

Unless you subscribe to one member’s outlandish opinion on this thread..that we all need to be biologists/economists otherwise we are totally clueless and our viewpoints are irrelevant!!!

That guy is a lump of shitt.  His opinion is null and void since I doubt he hunts anything from his mom's basement.  

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I have been thinking about it. And all I can hope for is they issue more december rifle tags in the no december archery units. Only saying because I'm a few points behind a couple nice mule deer tags.

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6 hours ago, HuntHarder said:

Based solely on OTC tags issued  

Do you suppose those hunters are spaced out evenly across the state between all 3 seasons? Or do you think maybe theyre  concentrated in a few units during the prime time 

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11 minutes ago, Delw said:

I never said any of theses were anyones fault.

I said they play a parts in animal populations, aka variables when G&F is making there decisions.

Harvest data by hunters is UNRELIABLE if the data is truthful or not. why would you use UNRELIABLE DATA for something.

I never said hunters will be turned off my  mandating that. I personaly dont care if they set up road blocks and checked.

AGAIN I will repeat it Harvest Data by hunters is unreliable because the lie to make numbers look good.

 

 

Unreliable? Unit 22 bear shuts down opening week every year. 

Who is reporting these sows being killed?

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