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Edge

Old rifles New powders

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It didn't take long for me to stop burning black powder in the rolling block and trapdoor. 

I'm trying a recipe from Ed Harris's 'The Load' using 12grains Red Dot.

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Anyone else loading smokeless for low velocity rounds? What recipe works for you? 

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No, not recommended

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Edge and I talked about this awhile back. Wish I had a good answer to the question. I have been looking at a ton of stuff on the internet and old loading manuals. Have a bunch of Unique on hand and found Winchester & Marlin loads using Unique. Loaded up 10 but only shot two. Reason being the velocities I got were WAY off the data. I’m shooting a 1895 Marlin 45-70 and while the loads were still safe in that rifle I didn’t care for the deviation from the data.

 I will try H4198 when I can find some. Data shows low pressure for that powder. Will report back if and when...

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2 minutes ago, Bucks&bulls said:

Edge and I talked about this awhile back. Wish I had a good answer to the question. I have been looking at a ton of stuff on the internet and old loading manuals. Have a bunch of Unique on hand and found trapdoor loads using Unique. Loaded up 10 but only shot two. Reason being the velocities I got were WAY off the data. I’m shooting a 1895 Marlin 45-70 and while the loads were still safe in that rifle I didn’t care for the deviation from the data.

 I will try H4198 when I can find some. Data shows low pressure for that powder. Will report back if and when...

Too much velocity? How far off was the data vs your chrono?

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4 hours ago, Bucks&bulls said:

Yeah the velocity was way more than expected.

How many grains were you loading?  Hence my question to Tim on using a filler. I really don't like using a very fast burning powder that only takes up 10% of the case. Too much potential for erratic pressures especially if the rifle is tilted and the majority of the powder is an inch or two away from the primer.

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The wife said I told her it was ok to pitch the targets and notes for the 45-70 from that outing so I can’t give you the exact numbers but believe I started at 14 grains of Unique under a 405 grain cast bullet. Data showed velocity around 1,200 FPS and I got around 1,500 FPS on the new to me lab radar on the first shot. Recoil was pretty mild and case/primer were perfect, thought I messed up on setting up the new unit so touched off another one and the velocity was very close to to the first. Time to find a more appropriate powder.

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1 hour ago, PRDATR said:

How many grains were you loading?  Hence my question to Tim on using a filler. I really don't like using a very fast burning powder that only takes up 10% of the case. Too much potential for erratic pressures especially if the rifle is tilted and the majority of the powder is an inch or two away from the primer.

Oh contraire. I'm measuring a 45 70 case now with 13grains of red dot. With a 405gr bullet properly seated, there's only 1/3 of the case empty.  That's the charge recommended for the rolling block.

Also, not enough empty space for an accidental double charge of 12 or 13 grains of red dot.

Look at the difference in length between a 250 and a 405grain round..

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Just returned from out shooting the 45 70 Rolling Block with the 12gr Red Dot loads. What a hoot!

Will head out with the 13gr charge soon.

Anyone on the west side with a chrono like to go to the range I belong to? Lunch is on me, burger or chili at the Wildhorse.

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3 hours ago, Edge said:

Just returned from out shooting the 45 70 Rolling Block with the 12gr Red Dot loads. What a hoot!

Will head out with the 13gr charge soon.

Anyone on the west side with a chrono like to go to the range I belong to? Lunch is on me, burger or chili at the Wildhorse.

Heck I'd almost break out my Ohler and make the drive just to shoot it.

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3 hours ago, Edge said:

Just returned from out shooting the 45 70 Rolling Block with the 12gr Red Dot loads. What a hoot!

Will head out with the 13gr charge soon.

Anyone on the west side with a chrono like to go to the range I belong to? Lunch is on me, burger or chili at the Wildhorse.

I would take you up on the offer if I had a chrono. I just loaded up some 45-90 with 5744 behind a 405 grain cast bullet. Like you said, no filler. Just ordered a vernier mid range rear sight and a front globe to replace the tang peep sight and a bead front on the 1885.

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58 minutes ago, Arizona Griz said:

I would take you up on the offer if I had a chrono. I just loaded up some 45-90 with 5744 behind a 405 grain cast bullet. Like you said, no filler. Just ordered a vernier mid range rear sight and a front globe to replace the tang peep sight and a bead front on the 1885.

Let me know how those work for ya

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So I've just returned from chronographing the 45 70 Red Dot loads with Bucksandbulls. 12gr and 13gr loads with a 405gr cast lead out of a breach/break 32" barrel were exactly as advertised on the graph.

When loading 15grains the extra 3 grains only saw a net gain of about 50fps.

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