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geoffsl

Its Time To Change the Arizona Bonus Point System

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2 minutes ago, muleybowhunter said:

lol How long have you been applying? Are you from Cali? 

Nope, I am from Mesa. . .20 years for big horn, 14 for deer, 16 for antelope, 

it took me 6 points to draw spring turkey.   Its everywhere. 

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2 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

Its every where. . .nothing special for Elk (3a/3c archer), unit 10 antelope, unit 12w for deer. . .but it took six points to draw spring turkey???

Every unit you listed is a prime unit. 

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6 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

Thats where you are wrong. . .it is NOT a preferential system at all. . .at no point does the fact that you have waited the longest guarantee you have a tag. . .it just means you have more chances to be randomly selected in the bonus pool pass of the draw. . .and I think that is the problem. . .people don't understand how it works.  There is a big difference between a preferential system and bonus point system.  

I would be more ok if like you say it was a good balance. . .but how is 20% of the tags balanced?  When  the general pop gets a shot at 70% of the tags??? Thats not balanced at all.  Make it 50 / 50 it you like a balance. . .spending more money and more time in line, should account for something.

I would advise educating yourself on how the AZ system works, there are lots of YouTube videos to help.  If you have bonus points you are also eligible for the random 80% as well. 
 

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10 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

Put in for hunts you can drawn and quit bitching 

 

3 minutes ago, wish2hunt said:

Must be the way he wants it changed to suit himself.

Other states do it way better and are a lot more fair.  Yes, the change would benefit me, but it would benefit anyone who is tired of spending money and never getting to hunt.

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1 minute ago, twigsnapper said:

I would advise educating yourself on how the AZ system works, there are lots of YouTube videos to help.  If you have bonus points you are also eligible for the random 80% as well. 
 

I  understand the system and Yes I understand I am eligible for the 70% pool as well not 80 as you suggest. 10% goes to out of state. . .so it looks like you are the one who needs the refresher course.   so using the departments own draw odds publication you can see, the bonus pool pass issued less that 1 percent of the 1st and 2nd choice tags to people with points and less than 2.5 percent to those who had no points. . .so in this case, you have a total of 3 % of drawing--with a better chance getting the tag from the general draw than the "bonus".    Look at Hunt #03149--again using the game and fish publication.

You are welcome to refresh you understanding. . .and maybe it more people did they would understand why what i am suggesting is fair.

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15 minutes ago, wish2hunt said:

Every unit you listed is a prime unit. 

and your point is?  We shouldnt try to hunt in trophy units?  and for those of us who do, we should compete with the same odds as everyone else.  Your point isn't to say the system we use is fair, its to say put in for easy to draw hunts. . .but that doesn't change the fact that even in that (putting in for easy to draw units) people get tags ahead of people who have paid more money and waited longer for the opportunity.  Taking six points to draw turkey is ridiculous.  

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4 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

I  understand the system and Yes I understand I am eligible for the 70% pool as well not 80 as you suggest. 10% goes to out of state. . .so it looks like you are the one who needs the refresher course.   so using the departments own draw odds publication you can see, the bonus pool pass issued less that 1 percent of the 1st and 2nd choice tags to people with points and less than 2.5 percent to those who had no points. . .so in this case, you have a total of 3 % of drawing--with a better chance getting the tag from the general draw than the "bonus".    Look at Hunt #03149--again using the game and fish publication.

You are welcome to refresh you understanding. . .and maybe it more people did they would understand why what i am suggesting is fair.

What would be fair to you?

The more you pay the higher chance you have to draw? Richest man wins?

Or the game and fish does all the work to do the draw and manage wildlife with manpower, equipment and overhead, and you don't have to pay a dime unless you get drawn? 

 

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11 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

I  understand the system and Yes I understand I am eligible for the 70% pool as well not 80 as you suggest. 10% goes to out of state. . .so it looks like you are the one who needs the refresher course.   so using the departments own draw odds publication you can see, the bonus pool pass issued less that 1 percent of the 1st and 2nd choice tags to people with points and less than 2.5 percent to those who had no points. . .so in this case, you have a total of 3 % of drawing--with a better chance getting the tag from the general draw than the "bonus".    Look at Hunt #03149--again using the game and fish publication.

You are welcome to refresh you understanding. . .and maybe it more people did they would understand why what i am suggesting is fair.

Dude no… I think you should probably research how the draw works again in regards to who/how the bonus pass works , and how the 10% non res part works. 10% do not automatically go to non res, it’s a cap not an allocation . And the bonus pass is exactly people who have most points getting tags

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Also you have to realize you're in a state with low numbers of game compared to some. If you want to hunt every year, move to a state that has more game. We can't all win. That is just life.

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26 minutes ago, geoffsl said:

Nope, I am from Mesa. . .20 years for big horn, 14 for deer, 16 for antelope, 

it took me 6 points to draw spring turkey.   Its everywhere. 

Not even remotely close to the bonus pass for anything. You haven’t waited in line nearly half as long as others. You have the same odds in the random draw as everyone else. Learn to hunt better and you can kill the same quality in easy to draw every year units as the trophy units just takes more work. This crybaby BS is quite funny. 

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Just now, briant_az said:

What would be fair to you?

The more you pay the higher chance you have to draw? Richest man wins?

Or the game and fish does all the work to do the draw and manage wildlife with manpower, equipment and overhead, and you don't have to pay a dime unless you get drawn? 

 

absolutely not, I am saying this because this doesn't affect rich people--they go where ever they want--NM, WY and buy landowner tags or pay for guided hunting opportunities.  If you think about it, what I am suggesting is what they do in other states--a preferential system VS our Bonus system.  The difference being, we should issue tags to who is in line the longest. . .first come, first serve.  You may have to put in ten years to get drawn--meaning you pay app fees and license just like now, but no one gets a tag ahead of some one with more points.  Game and Fish still collects their money and manages the game.  I never said, I didn't want to pay unless I got drawn, I am tired of paying all the fees and having no better chance (statistically speaking) to draw next time.  Guess I am alone.

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The only change that I think I would be in favor for ( and I say I think because I haven't thought about all the ramifications) is a min bonus point to apply for a hunt by species. Something like:

Youth hunts = 0

Turkey = 0 

Javelina = 0

Deer = 1

Elk = 3

Antelope = 5

Big Horn = 5

Something like that.

Would help the odds a bit for those that have put in the time by shrinking the pool, but not a I have waited the longest so I get a tag.  

 

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5 minutes ago, dustin25 said:

Dude no… I think you should probably research how the draw works again in regards to who/how the bonus pass works , and how the 10% non res part works. 10% do not automatically go to non res, it’s a cap not an allocation . And the bonus pass is exactly people who have most points getting tags

the point is, look at the game and fishes own publication. . .if you do the math and the research you will see exactly what I am talking about.  the publish it on their page.  I am not making this up.  And regardless. . .the bottom line is with out question. . .people who have been in line for a tag get passed by people who have waited less. . .period, not up for debate.  That is well known fact.  All i am saying is that people who have waited the longest. . .should get preferential treatment. . and the closest we come in AZ is more names in the hat for a VERY limited number of tags.  Again, using AZGFD's numbers, I had a total of 3% chance of drawing my tag of which more than 2% of that came from the general pool. . .so again, people are getting tags ahead of people who have been waiting longer and have spent more along the way for the chance. and really no better odds the next time around.  But I guess if you think that sounds fair. . .no sense discussing.  

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2 minutes ago, jdown said:

The only change that I think I would be in favor for ( and I say I think because I haven't thought about all the ramifications) is a min bonus point to apply for a hunt by species. Something like:

Youth hunts = 0

Turkey = 0 

Javelina = 0

Deer = 1

Elk = 3

Antelope = 5

Big Horn = 5

Something like that.

Would help the odds a bit for those that have put in the time by shrinking the pool, but not a I have waited the longest so I get a tag.  

 

Thats a start.  .I know some states won't let you put in for a tag for up to five years after you draw. . .don't know how I feel about that.  But something has to change.  People are getting tags ahead of people who have waited longer and spent more with not much better chances the next go around.  

 

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1 minute ago, geoffsl said:

absolutely not, I am saying this because this doesn't affect rich people--they go where ever they want--NM, WY and buy landowner tags or pay for guided hunting opportunities.  If you think about it, what I am suggesting is what they do in other states--a preferential system VS our Bonus system.  The difference being, we should issue tags to who is in line the longest. . .first come, first serve.  You may have to put in ten years to get drawn--meaning you pay app fees and license just like now, but no one gets a tag ahead of some one with more points.  Game and Fish still collects their money and manages the game.  I never said, I didn't want to pay unless I got drawn, I am tired of paying all the fees and having no better chance (statistically speaking) to draw next time.  Guess I am alone.

You do have a better chance. If AZ worked the way you are suggesting, you'd probably never get to hunt in your life time. Do you realize how many people have applied for tags before you ever did? Our state and game animals can't support the system you are wanting. The current way its done, gives you a far better chance of getting a tag. 

Apply for tags and be happy when you draw them. Hunting in this state has changed a lot in the 20 years I've been applying for big game. Its only going to get worse. More people wanting more hunting and the game can't keep up.  

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