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Muzzleloader information for beginners

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I was looking at the regs and I saw a hunt that I liked that I can draw fairly often in an area I know well. It is a late muzzy hunt. 

I have no experience with muzzleloaders so i wanted to ask around for possible rifles and gear opinions. 

I was looking at CVA optima. Also I was really looking at the Remington 700 UML. 

I heard that the CVA's aren't too good at about the 200 yard mark. But the remmington is much better for long range. 

What should I get? I am willing to spend the extra money for better gear. But if I can make a setup with the CVA or any other gun for cheaper with about a 200-300 yards range I would rather do that if its cheaper. Thanks guys

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This is a great site for a lot of stuff but the Muzzleloader section is a little quiet. I have also started with a muzzleloader fairly recently and I have learned a lot from the guys on:

Modern Muzzleloader Muzzleloading Forum

I just recently got a CVA Optima V2 LR with the thumbhole stock and nitride and I love it. I looked at all the options and for ME the CVA was the way to go for now. We also have a stainless CVA Wolf. I thought a lot about the Knight Ultra-Lite and the Woodman Arms Patriot, but at the end of the day I decided on the Optima. I am primarily a bowhunter. I also occasionally hunt with a rifle. I am not into the Long-range thing. That being said for a Muzzleloader and what I'm trying to do, 150-200 yards is long enough. Seen plenty of review with guys shooting off the shelf bullets with inch to inch and a half groups at 100 yards. That is not bad! With that in mind the CVA Optima is a very easy to use, easy to clean, reasonably priced rifle. It's not very heavy at around 7 pounds. I put an older Redfield Tracker 3-9x40 scope on it and it weighs just a bit over 8 pounds. Options for 26 or 28 inch barrel. With the Optima you will be limited to 150 grains max of something like Triple Se7en pellets. You can find tune your load with loose powder a bit better and I believe it is generally considered a bit more consistent than the pellets grain for grain and maybe a little hotter. Blackhorn 209 is even hotter yet but quadruple the price of the Triple Se7en but cleaner by A LOT and the most consistent shot for shot.

Remington UML is going to be able to shoot more powder (up to 200 grains) I believe but also it is a heavier gun. Needs special primers. Made in USA vs Spain for the CVA. It's also easily double if not triple the price of an Optima. More on the lines of a CVA Paramount.

Personally I really like a break open design for something as simple as a muzzleloader. To me its overkill to have something like a bolt to put a tiny little primer forward. A solution to a problem that isn't there kind of thing. I get it if you are so used to your bolt action that you want to stay with the same form factor. For me I shoot all kinds of crap and never have a problem switching back and forth so to ME a bolt is overkill on muzzleloader. Just my opinion and others may love it. If you need to shoot 3 or 4 hundred yards I guess a bolt action might be the way to go for that kind of thing. Not in my wheelhouse.

Good luck deciding. There is a lot of good information out there and a lot of opinions that's for sure! Shooting a muzzleloader is a lot of fun though!

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Gotcha! I was just reading too that the UML would need a special breach plug to even shoot the Blackhorn 209 also. I've seen most people recommend the BH209, but I haven't done any research into the triple7 so I'll be sure to check that out. For bullets I was looking at the Barnes 209 grain. I think they are called TEX or something like that.

I'll check out some other setups people use for the optima. Thank you very much for the advice! 150-200 seems pretty good though!

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I've got a few muzzleloaders and blackhorn is definitely  the way to go. Don't  discount  the cva line I shot my biggest  bull to date with  a cva wolf. The optima line is good and most hunters will  run them .Don't  count out the 45 cal muzzleloader  it will  get you a flatter shooting  gun. If you do run pyrodex or 777 note the powder is corrosive  and you need to clean your gun after shooting  . With those two you need to run black powder  only cleaners. Blackhorn  is different  and you can clean like a modern rifle. If you can find one the paramount  pro or htr in 45 cal are great. I've got a pro in 45 and wouldn't  hesitate  to shoot it out to 3 or 4 hundred  if the shot was right. If your close to gilbert  I'd meet you at the range and you could  shoot the wolf 50 cal or the pro in 45 cal.

 

 

 

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When Blackhorn was $40 for a 10 oz. container it was a no brainer. Definitely the best powder without question. At $70 plus for 8 oz., they can keep it. I'll swab. I've got a few pounds of Blackhorn but I'm probably not buying anymore. Fricken' ridiculous since Hodgman bought it. People keep hoarding it so the price keeps going up. I bought a few cans here and there over the past year, but I'm done. Unreal.

Be aware that CVA just came out with a brand new Paramount Pro V2. Some guys love the Paramount and others have been having nothing but problems with the barrels. A lot of reports of the 45 cal rifles being overbored or choked. Same with the Accura V2 series I guess. Lots of guys unhappy about not being able to shoot bullet to bore without having to get custom bullets. For me I'm trying to keep it simple with stuff I can buy around town or easily online. Not knocking CVA just letting you know what I've heard. Other guys are shooting way out there with their Paramounts and loving them.

If you really want to drop some coin on a long range muzzleloader, have Arrowhead (AZ company) or Gunwerks build you one.

Look at Knight too, lots of guys LOVE them. On the flipside just read a report yesterday about a guy that fired one shot from his new Mountaineer and the primer got jammed up and he was done. Be aware that if you go that route you might need to invest in a new aftermarket breech plug right away. They are super proud of their stuff. If you want a Nitride version got to order directly from them and pay the ridiculous 11% Federal Excise tax that only they assess, plus a hefty shipping fee. Get out your wallet. Their barrels do seem top notch however and you are getting a 100% Made in USA rifle.

Woodman Arms has a gun called Patriot that is also a great gun. Break action with a unique cocking mechanism, no hammer. Also 100% Made in USA with a few choices in barrels and stocks. Big thing with them is you have to order and wait who knows how long. They say up to 20 weeks on the website but I think they might be even longer than that, like 6-9 months maybe. I thought seriously about getting one but without even being able to hold it and see how it feels before spending my money and waiting all that time, I passed.

When I ordered my Optima recently, I got 10% off, no tax, no shipping ordering directly from them.

 

 

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Don't forget Todd at SouthernXpress, 

He builds a nice muzzleloader.  Picked one up last year and my daughter shot her first bull with it about a week later. 

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3 hours ago, Heat said:

When Blackhorn was $40 for a 10 oz. container it was a no brainer. Definitely the best powder without question. At $70 plus for 8 oz., they can keep it. I'll swab. I've got a few pounds of Blackhorn but I'm probably not buying anymore. Fricken' ridiculous since Hodgman bought it. People keep hoarding it so the price keeps going up. I bought a few cans here and there over the past year, but I'm done. Unreal.

Be aware that CVA just came out with a brand new Paramount Pro V2. Some guys love the Paramount and others have been having nothing but problems with the barrels. A lot of reports of the 45 cal rifles being overbored or choked. Same with the Accura V2 series I guess. Lots of guys unhappy about not being able to shoot bullet to bore without having to get custom bullets. For me I'm trying to keep it simple with stuff I can buy around town or easily online. Not knocking CVA just letting you know what I've heard. Other guys are shooting way out there with their Paramounts and loving them.

If you really want to drop some coin on a long range muzzleloader, have Arrowhead (AZ company) or Gunwerks build you one.

Look at Knight too, lots of guys LOVE them. On the flipside just read a report yesterday about a guy that fired one shot from his new Mountaineer and the primer got jammed up and he was done. Be aware that if you go that route you might need to invest in a new aftermarket breech plug right away. They are super proud of their stuff. If you want a Nitride version got to order directly from them and pay the ridiculous 11% Federal Excise tax that only they assess, plus a hefty shipping fee. Get out your wallet. Their barrels do seem top notch however and you are getting a 100% Made in USA rifle.

Woodman Arms has a gun called Patriot that is also a great gun. Break action with a unique cocking mechanism, no hammer. Also 100% Made in USA with a few choices in barrels and stocks. Big thing with them is you have to order and wait who knows how long. They say up to 20 weeks on the website but I think they might be even longer than that, like 6-9 months maybe. I thought seriously about getting one but without even being able to hold it and see how it feels before spending my money and waiting all that time, I passed.

When I ordered my Optima recently, I got 10% off, no tax, no shipping ordering directly from them.

 

 

I think imma order an optima. Imma still spend the extra for BH209 though. Seems like a better way to go. I am willing to spend extra to get a good shot and kill too. I went to sportsmens to check them out a bit ago. I wanted to get the one with the thumb hole in the stock. Also what would be better? The 28 in or 26? Or is it more of how it feels when I shoulder the gun? I also wanna know if the scope it comes with is good too. If not what kinda scopes do you like. Anything around the 200 yard range is gonna be a good shot for me after doing more research now too. 

Any bullet recommendations too? I keep finding stuff about the barnes 290. But what about the power belts or Hornady? Thank you

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Cabelas had blackhorn on the shelf two days ago.You will like the thumb hole stock.I shoot powerbelt in my muzzy .I looked into Thor bullets for a bullet to bore fit but didn't order any yet. Hornady has there new bore driver line and the reviews seem good. The konus scopes are OK they have 2 different scopes the one with the bullet drop is the better of the two.

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52 minutes ago, Crazymonkey said:

Cabelas had blackhorn on the shelf two days ago.You will like the thumb hole stock.I shoot powerbelt in my muzzy .I looked into Thor bullets for a bullet to bore fit but didn't order any yet. Hornady has there new bore driver line and the reviews seem good. The konus scopes are OK they have 2 different scopes the one with the bullet drop is the better of the two.

Gotcha. I think imma just get a few different types and mess around with them when I buy a muzzy. Is it okay to order powder online and send it to my house. Or is there legalities with shipping anything with gun powder?

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Thompson center used to make a rifle with barrel that you can switch from different caliber to a muzzleloader, forgot the name of the model.

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6 minutes ago, maximus said:

Thompson center used to make a rifle with barrel that you can switch from different caliber to a muzzleloader, forgot the name of the model.

I'll look that up and see what I can find. That sounds pretty sick

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2 hours ago, maximus said:

Thompson center used to make a rifle with barrel that you can switch from different caliber to a muzzleloader, forgot the name of the model.

Thompson Center is basically defunct. They are no longer making guns. Big pass on that one for me with no parts and no after product support if you get a lemon or bad part. Trust me I thought long and hard about buying a Pro Hunter FX which is the non removable barrel version. The one you are thinking of is the Encore I think.

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You can order online for powder and have it shipped to your door. If you do switch powder just keep in mind pyrodex and 777 are corrosive and black powder  cleaners only no gun oil in the barrel .It will bugger up your powder. Blackhorn  you can use what you use to clean and oil your modern  rifle.Tip for you run Teflon tape on the threads of the breach plug instead of anti sealed. It cleaner better and is easy to replace. 

 

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Going to be doing a 45 cal smokeless build (can only use blackhorn to hunt in AZ) soon but have been using an Optima V2 out to 200 yards for the past 5 years, never let me down.

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