ML HELP NEEDED PLEASE

[Coach]

I've been there and I feel your pain. I have a Knight Long Range Hunter and I thought I had found the best combination - Hornady 250 gr SST bullets with the red sabot, 100 grains of triple seven (2 50 gr pellets) and Win 209 primers, Leupold Ultimate slam scope. From what I've seen, 150 grains will not burn inside a 26" barrel. Three 50 grain pyrodex or .777 pellets, IMO don't produce much more velocity than two. Most of that third pellet burns up outside the barrel, kicks harder and is less consistent than two.

 

I was shooting groups out to 300 even 400 yards that looked like what you would expect from a good center fire rifle - I'm talking close to MOA. Then Hornady changed their Sabot to make it easier to load. All of a sudden, I was spraying all over the place at 100 yards. I tried every bullet from power belts to barnes triple shock, and could not group at all.

 

So I went away from the pellets and used 120 grains of loose .777 and all of the bullets I shot were better, but nowhere close to what I'd seen that gun shoot before. I finally settled on some TC bullets with the yellow plastic sabot and was able to take a bull elk at 250 yards and a nice coues at 210 yards, but I have never gotten that gun to shoot the way it did the first few weeks I shot it. I'm almost wondering if the Ultimate Slam scope gets loose inside on a ML. I'm about ready to stick a different scope on this gun because I've seen it shoot WAY better than what it is now, and I suspect the scope or mounts more than the rifle, powder or bullets.

 

FWIW, neither first shot on the coues or bull elk were optimal. I hit the elk back and low, the coues back and high, but both were recoverable.

 

I'd re-mount the scope, even try someone else's scope with the standard 2-3 pellet load, some TC's or Powerbelts. I absolutely loved the Ultimate Slam at first, but now I suspect the recoil has made it less accurate.

[tjhunt2]

pm sent

 

TJ

[Flatlander]

TJ thanks for the offer of help. I will text you tomorrow.

 

Thanks to everybody for their suggestions and offers of help. I have procured a backup gun so that took a lot of the pressure off. At least I know if I can't get mine back together I will still be able to hunt. Currently my muzzleloader which was shooting 2 inch groups a month ago is sitting in the gun vise, I have it completely disassembled other than removing the trigger assembly. I think I have identified the problems and hope to get everything back together tomorrow and then be back out at Rio Salado on Saturday. It will be a long week waiting to see the results, but I am confident the problem is resolved, whatever it was. On Saturday I will go back to a load I knew shot well out of the gun previously and start there.

 

I have pulled the breech plug out and cleaned everything with a fine tooth comb. During the dis-assembly I identified a few things I thought might be the problem:

 

1. A loose front scope base. I suspect this was the issue, but I was never able to generate any movement when the scope was mounted so it may not have been the problem.

2. A severely plugged breech. I filled the barrel with hot soapy water to soak the breech plug and it actually held water. Clearly this was the cause of the hang-fires I was experiencing.

3. Fouling of the barrel. I have run over a hundred swatches through it in the last two days and have only recently started getting a clean pass on even dry swatches.

[sherman]

Well it sounds like it was as dirty as it could get I hope you get it fixed.

[Titanium700]

I suspected a loose scope base as well, when I install all of mine I use loctite, never had one come loose.

 

the other thought was plastic buildup from the sabots, I had a buddy that his gun shot great the previous sesson but during the summer he went and put a few hundred rounds through it all the while complaining it was shooting worse and worse .

 

he cleaned it.....or thought he did and it still shot like crap, that it when we discovered plastic buildup in the rifling near the muzzle, so we scoured it out with a stiff brush and gun cleaning solvent and pulled lots of plastic out.

 

that fixed his problem.

 

but to me I feel confident your front base was your issue, good luck.

[1uglydude]

Is the base one of the older-style weaver type bases CVA used to put on their muzzleloaders? I have a CVA Axis and, unbeknownst to me, the base worked itself loose on BOTH the muzzleloader barrel and the .223 barrel. I switched over to the integrated one piece ring and base set they offer now and haven't had a problem since.

[bobbyo]

Hopefully, you fixed your group. I have the same brand of rifle and had serious grouping issues. Missed a lot of trophy animals. I did not cure the problem until I switched to nosler sabots. The difference was amazing. Some black powered nuts think that the sabot itself is a bit skinner than the other brands. Sure loads easier. I suspect nosler does not make them themselves, but could never figure out who manufactured the sabots for nosler. I use 100 grain 777 loose. 230 grain hornaday 44 in the nosler sabot. I use the regular hornaday with hollow tip not the sst. Strangely the SST did not group as well.

Bob.

[Rombo]

Humidity will affect your shot significantly. Try fresh loads with 100 grains. Keep the pyrodex in a ziplock bag

[Flatlander]

Thanks to everyone who helped with this. Between Mark (125Coues) and a coworker I received a lot of detailed advice that proved very helpful. Today she shot like the good ole days. Here is my final group at 100 yds.

 

 

Followed that up with a 3" group at 200. Should be good enough. Thanks again to everyone who provided suggestions, advice, past experience or offered help. I was humbled that so many guys who I have never met before offered to lend me their guns for the hunt. Despite how we may come across sometimes, the members of this site are top notch in my book.

 

Thank you all again.

[Titanium700]

That's a confidence booster right there.

Good luck on your hunt.

[cohofishing]

Just curious. What did you do to get your to shoot? Did you end up changing loads?

 

Brent

[cohofishing]

Your gun... I need to start reading my own posts

[Flatlander]

I disassembled totally and put everything back with a generous helping of loctite. Cleaned the barrel with plenty of hot soapy water and some solvent. Cleaned the breech plug with WD-40, and replaced with Teflon and breech plug grease. Remounted the scope and bases. When I soaked the barrel it held water for the first hour of soaking.

 

My diagnosis was a loose front base, fouled breech and fouled barrel.

[tjhunt2]

Good to hear you got it all together. Can't wait to hear of your hunt.

 

TJ

[NOTAGS]

I am here to second what Rombo said about the humidity on the powder. I went through the same meltdown yesterday a.m.. I couldnt put a group together, much less keep it with in 8" at 100yards. The gun had shot well( not as well as I was used) just 6 weeks prior. I knew the scope mounts were secure, gun clean...I thought I had scrambled my scope with the 150 gr loads. With less than a week till my antelope hunt, I was coming apart mentally. I remembered reading this thread, and realized my Triple 7 pellets had been around a while, kept in my evap cooled garage, and just exposed to another humid summer. Fortunately I had bought a spare box a couple weeks ago. I broke the seal, went back to it, and put it in the bull. Went out this a.m, after a complete cleaning, shot a 1" group at 100, kept it within 3 at 200. The pellets will now stay in my safe in the a/c and be vaccum packed after the hunt.