Can you actually still hunt unit 32? And a AZGFD mini-rant.

[sjpitts]

Many years ago we used to hunt 32. It was a great unit. But even then, the access was limited. Today I got a AZGFD email with a notice that said a new landowner has closed the Long Hollow access point. This got me thinking and I looked at the AZGFD guide for unit 32.

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunting_units_32.shtml

 

This is some of what I found:

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: Johnson Road off of I-10 has been closed on Private Property. There is no longer access to the Little Dragoon Mountains and Tres Alamos Wash from Johnson Road.

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: There is no longer public access to State Trust or Forest Service lands through the Long Hollow access point.

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: There are no public access routes on the east side of the Winchester Mountains.

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: Due to vandalism and lack of respect for private property, public access through private lands on the Mercer Ranch (Bunker Hill Road) is now denied.

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: Popular camping sites along lower Deer Creek Road are now closed to camping due to private property.

 

SPECIAL NOTICE: Access to the north side of Redfield Canyon through private land on the Carlink Ranch is no longer available.

 

I know that AZGFD tries to maintain access though voluntary agreements. But as far as I know, AZGFD has never tried to keep access open through other means.

 

For example, has the AZGFD ever gone to court to keep a road open? I know the law is complicated, but in many cases it would seem that there would be a public easement that should be enough to keep the road open. Why not take these people to court?

 

Or has the AZGFD ever tried to buy easements? Either from willing sellers or through condemnation?

 

Has the AZGFD ever built new roads built around private property?

 

I know these things costs money, but I for one would pay a little more in license fees to support things like that.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the hunting community is conflicted on this, because some professional guides pay for the access rights, and thus are able to turn large areas of public lands into private hunting areas that they are able to make more money with. And maybe those with the money to pay for access really like the status quo. Either way, it does not seem like anything good is happening.

 

Jared

 

 

 

 

 

 

[muledeerarea33?]

to answer your questions, basically yes. not sure about 32 but in general the G&F goes to zoning meetings, builds access roads if they can, and controls easements in some areas. they have a guy for every region that deals with access. The Tucson guy is real nice and will explain everything to you. He seems passionate about really trying to gain access.

[Str8Shot]

They will tell you that you can get access by foot and horseback in most of the areas via alternative routes... What I do not understand is that with all of Different hunting foundations that ask for money Hunters as a whole are not banning together to get a Real estate Lawyer to use the laws to force rights of easements into our public lands... Unless the laws have change there should be along standing history of unrestricted access through these private properties to our public lands to legally require easements to be made. 32 is a great unit but I personally have not hunted down there in over 10 years Too Much BS...

[Explorer]

They can grade closed roads up in the Kaibab NF but they can't make new ones down south? I would not want to be a ranch owner and have to be forced to allow people access through my land, at the same time we as tax payers have the right to enjoy land that our tax $ funds. Wish they would just build core roads. I don't mind all the small road closures as long as I can hike into an area fairly easy.

[johnnie blaze]

It's only going to get better with time.

[1uglydude]

Even assuming new roads can be created that don't cross private lands (highly unlikely in those areas), you're forgetting that the Department would still need the permission of the Forest Service to build a road on federal lands. Good luck with that.

 

As for going to court for easements, if there was a legal leg to stand on, the Department would be doing it. You're all trying to extend the laws about adversely possessing an access easement to private property to the public property context. It doesn't work that way, even if that's what TV and the movies have led you to believe.

 

The Department has shown in the past that it is willing to buy easements where offered at a reasonable price, but what motivation does a landowner have to sell such an easement? By doing so, he automatically lowers the value of his land because no future purchaser would be able to have complete control over the land anymore. Instead, the landowner could offer access that is less temporary than a permanent easement. That's what you see in most of 36C. Those agreements give the landowner the flexibility to respond quickly to issues that arise and it doesn't impact the resale value of their land.

[azslim]

Can't blame the land owners, idiots with no respect forced their hand. A friend was down there several years ago, some idiots on quads siphoned all the gas out of the car of the lady living on the property that gives access to Ariviapa Canyon. She had just filled it the day before and they didn't leave her enough to be able to drive to the gas station, there are none close by. Larry gave her all the gas he had. She said she had had enough and was locking it down as this wasn't the first time it had happened to her.

 

Only takes 1 or 2 people to screw it up for the rest of us. How would you react if in the same position she is?

[Guest 300ultramag.]

Can't blame the land owners, idiots with no respect forced their hand. A friend was down there several years ago, some idiots on quads siphoned all the gas out of the car of the lady living on the property that gives access to Ariviapa Canyon. She had just filled it the day before and they didn't leave her enough to be able to drive to the gas station, there are none close by. Larry gave her all the gas he had. She said she had had enough and was locking it down as this wasn't the first time it had happened to her.

 

Only takes 1 or 2 people to screw it up for the rest of us. How would you react if in the same position she is?

 

so if you get 2 idiots running a muck in each unit then what?

[Str8Shot]

I can not argue that disrespectful individuals (not always hunters, as the mercers started restricting access due to people from Mammoth dumping on their property and then being hit with a huge fine and clean up fee) do not make it easy for the greater numbers. However, I had been told at one point if the road was ever dedicated, maintained by state agencies, and/or has given access for more than 10 years without having to stop and ask for permission of land owners that and would be cause for a possible prescriptive easement. In reality Game and Fish must have access to be able to monitor and enforce the Laws we all should be abiding by. IMO if private ranchers want to close all reasonable access and close most the hunters out of public lands while profiting from allowing outfitters access to public while also hunting their own private land G&F should make the areas NO HUNT ZONES.... In the last 15 years it is my opinion that more are restricting access to the many while striking deals with outfitters out of pure greed and for the money. Ugly dude says it is not that easy but there are condemnation laws that allow the government to secure easements while compensating the land owners ... You would think the extra taxes we have been paying for all these years when purchasing anything and everything to do with Angling and Hunting would be able to help pay for not losing access.

 

S.1554 HUNT act ( which was introduced late 2013 seems to be stalled in our non moving government) is passed would be a good first step and getting access to Publicly owned National forest lands. However, the state should also be making similar legislature to secure access to all our public lands.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCg3EYV2DXo#t=13

[stanley]

 

Can't blame the land owners, idiots with no respect forced their hand. A friend was down there several years ago, some idiots on quads siphoned all the gas out of the car of the lady living on the property that gives access to Ariviapa Canyon. She had just filled it the day before and they didn't leave her enough to be able to drive to the gas station, there are none close by. Larry gave her all the gas he had. She said she had had enough and was locking it down as this wasn't the first time it had happened to her.

 

Only takes 1 or 2 people to screw it up for the rest of us. How would you react if in the same position she is?

 

so if you get 2 idiots running a muck in each unit then what?

 

 

Same as in unit 32...... Private land owners may exersize their right to close their land off and/or be as selective as they want to be regarding who gets access, when.

 

S.

[PRDATR]

I can not argue that disrespectful individuals (not always hunters, as the mercers started restricting access due to people from Mammoth dumping on their property and then being hit with a huge fine and clean up fee) do not make it easy for the greater numbers. However, I had been told at one point if the road was ever dedicated, maintained by state agencies, and/or has given access for more than 10 years without having to stop and ask for permission of land owners that and would be cause for a possible prescriptive easement. In reality Game and Fish must have access to be able to monitor and enforce the Laws we all should be abiding by. IMO if private ranchers want to close all reasonable access and close most the hunters out of public lands while profiting from allowing outfitters access to public while also hunting their own private land G&F should make the areas NO HUNT ZONES.... In the last 15 years it is my opinion that more are restricting access to the many while striking deals with outfitters out of pure greed and for the money. Ugly dude says it is not that easy but there are condemnation laws that allow the government to secure easements while compensating the land owners ... You would think the extra taxes we have been paying for all these years when purchasing anything and everything to do with Angling and Hunting would be able to help pay for not losing access.

 

S.1554 HUNT act ( which was introduced late 2013 seems to be stalled in our non moving government) is passed would be a good first step and getting access to Publicly owned National forest lands. However, the state should also be making similar legislature to secure access to all our public lands.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCg3EYV2DXo#t=13

This constant loss of access is tough to see happen. When I moved here in 1977 from NY one thing that I loved was there was seemingly unlimited access to vast areas to hunt.

I really need to put my nose to the grindstone and map to find some access points into 32 for my late November hunt. I can sympathise with landowners and have seen a guide mention on another FB Forum that he has access to a few private ranches in 32. That's all fine and dandy for his clients but it is a bit disheartening. For you folks who hunt this unit I'd appreciate it if you want to take the time to message me about areas that I shouldn't waste my time driving to just to find a locaked gate. One area I was looking to scout is on the westside via Peters Wash.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

If we all could just helicopter in

 

If any of us were generational land owners who used to make a living running cows, and then you found a more profitable way to use that land.........maybe the gates would be locked as well except for big money people.

 

If you were sick of your windmills getting shot up, fences getting cut, things being stolen the gates might get locked up as well.

 

Many of the land owners have tried to get help just to handle the illegal traffic coming across their land. My uncle has worked a ranch just north of Douglas and he has some pretty wild stories.

So, yes those who live down in that area have a lot that drives them to take the measures that they choose.

 

Bootheel of New Mexico has some awesome hunting country in it but much of that has been closed up to hunting all together by conservationist. Ben Brown on this site is the expert on what has happened down there.

 

I think there are many issues that are involved with what is going on south of I-10.

[Str8Shot]

If we all could just helicopter in

 

If any of us were generational land owners who used to make a living running cows, and then you found a more profitable way to use that land.........maybe the gates would be locked as well except for big money people.

 

If you were sick of your windmills getting shot up, fences getting cut, things being stolen the gates might get locked up as well.

 

Many of the land owners have tried to get help just to handle the illegal traffic coming across their land. My uncle has worked a ranch just north of Douglas and he has some pretty wild stories.

So, yes those who live down in that area have a lot that drives them to take the measures that they choose.

 

Bootheel of New Mexico has some awesome hunting country in it but much of that has been closed up to hunting all together by conservationist. Ben Brown on this site is the expert on what has happened down there.

 

I think there are many issues that are involved with what is going on south of I-10.

You think it all takes place below the I-10 .... It is a growing problem in Arizona and we are not even the worst ... There are over 4 million acres of inaccessible public lands in New Mexico, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana ... Everyone should have the ability to get to these lands and if you look at the HUNT act if it passes it would be a good start... That still does not mean that State governments should not insure easements when selling or trading TRUST or BLM land... Anglers and hunters as a whole should demand more when it comes to access. There are outfitters that have been striking deals with land owners to lock up as well. I know for a fact that the last time I paid the Mercers ( I believe it was the last year they even allowed that paid access to 25 hunting parties through their lands) they were cutting a new road to the west of Sombrero Butte that followed around to the south side and it was going to be for guided hunts only, that came from the land owners mouth at the time. This was also the first year they improved the roads for the new mining that was taking place on their land. That Bunker Hill Road closure cut off any reasonable access to toms of great public hunting grounds. They have no problem using the land for their cattle , and Back packed in on more than one occasion they drove their cattle right through our cold camps in the hills during hunts. Hunters as a whole are getting the short straw when it comes to these situations regardless of the reason things should be done to secure reasonable access.

[ThomC]

Deer camps in 32 look like small cities. The whole fam damly with 9 1/2 people to every tag, add kids on quads burning up and down the roads, satellite dishes, generators, trash etc. That is what is happening now days. Overpopulation of the country with idiots. If your are not a roadhunter or one of the above then it could be to your benefit.

[muledeerarea33?]

I'd love to hear from guides. Do you all pay big bucks for this type oc access?? Be honest now! I'm sure most don't but will the brave stand up?