Elk-Rifle before Archery

[CB1]

Bad idea

[cw4192]

That is AWESOME. LOVE IT. I can't wait for that to take place. GREAT NEWS.

[Northern Pintail]

In all fairness, if it is on a rotating basis I see no problem with this. Every other year the rifle guys get first crack and obviously the other years archery guys get first crack. All they are doing is rotating the hunts, not adding a new hunt or anything. All it does is push the start of the archery hunt back a week to what would normally be the second weekend of the archery hunt. Archery guys are not taking it in the shorts as they can always apply for the general hunt and use a bow, but youd only have a week to hunt.

 

I'm with some of you who say archery guys lose out all the time but we are not really losing anything, other than not going first every year. Rifle guys should get the first crack at some of the bigger bulls too.

 

2cents

[brian390]

I agree with what 111 said. In 2006, they were able to start the archery hunts late when the elk really got to rutting good, and were still able to have the early rifle bull hunts afterwards.

 

I like archery and rifle hunting equally and do both often. The early rifle and archery hunts kill great bulls every year no matter when they are, but the hunt with the more primative weapon should get first crack in my opinion.

 

If they do this it will be taking the quality of 100 to 800 hunters tags per unit away for the quality of 5 to 100 tag holders per unit. It just doesn't make much sense to do this when early rifle hunters were already having highly successful hunts with great bulls taken. The early rifle hunts were already the hardest tags to draw now they will probably be even harder. I like trophy hunts but the early rifle hunt was already a trophy hunt and now it will just hurt the quality of the archery hunts. This will just be for satisfaction of the very, very, very few that will ever draw it. Not smart.

[hawkeye]

All of the complaining and e-mails make no difference at all. If they want to do it, they will. They pushed back several antelope hunts a full month without any input, or reasoning. They already put a muzzy hunt in front of the archers in unit 9, without any notice. So what makes you think they care about what anyone thinks.

[elkslare]

I think it is a bad idea, AZ has done good with managing there elk herds in the past. This is why it is such a go to place. they have great hunts and tremendous bulls.

Why mess it all up.

I do not know how many people they will have on these hunts, but has there been any study's on what it can do to the elk herds if there is that kind of pleasure before

the rut and during the rut????

It just seems to me they are gambling with there elk herds a bit, and with everyone's years of points and $$$ they have been putting in for year after year.

 

I emailed my

Just received email back from Az Fish Game

 

Thank you for your comment. Your comment will be evaluated during the Hunt Guideline review process and shared with the Commission.

Amber

Amber Munig

Big Game Management Supervisor, Game Branch

Arizona Game & Fish Department

5000 W. Carefree Highway

Phoenix, Arizona 85086

phone: 623-236-7355

fax: 623-236-7929

email: amunig@azgfd.gov

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[OpticNerd]

Any of guys think this will effect the draw odds at all? I've never put in for the trophy bull hunts because I liked the idea of getting first crack at the big boys. Also by the time the rifle hunts started a lot of the bigger bulls are all busted up. If the G&F decides to put the rifle hunt first I'll be very tempted to hang up the bow and put in for these earlier trophy hunts.

[azelkhunter69]

Any of guys think this will effect the draw odds at all? I've never put in for the trophy bull hunts because I liked the idea of getting first crack at the big boys. Also by the time the rifle hunts started a lot of the bigger bulls are all busted up. If the G&F decides to put the rifle hunt first I'll be very tempted to hang up the bow and put in for these earlier trophy hunts.

Personally, I think it might help the draw odds for archery hunters because all the guys with a bunch of points are going to put in for the early gun hunts to get first crack. There are a lot of people that have picked up a bow for the first time just so they can hunt early. As far as what drives these decisions....I firmly believe it's $$$$$$$$$$. The AZGFD does a lot of wonderful things but from what I've seen, the driving force behind many of their decisions is money. No matter what they do, I will continue putting in for the archery hunts. Hopefully, I won't be chasing bulls around when it is 90 degrees then.

[Swivelhead]

I think the ABA's approach, i.e. polling the early rifle/muzzy crowd on what they'd like to see is the correct course of action. Don't see them giving up the late Sept, early Oct. dates. Especially with all the scouters they'll get to meet should their hunt dates change to the week prior to the archery opener.

[Becker]

I understand some of the fuss about getting first crack. But just talking about this year. Are 25 muzzy tags really going to change the dynamics archery hunt?

[ThomC]

The muzzle ? loaders have a better lobby. The loudest voice get the worm. There is no way to be fair to all of the enormous amount of people that want to go Elk hunting in the easiest and the best hunting state in the USA. And easy is the key word. Every one wants to kill the next world record. They want it to be easy so to get in front of everyone they snuggle up to the Commissioners to get an advantage. It is politics as usual. The only thing different is there is no vote on the next commissioner. So get out there and snuggle.

[GJMauro12]

I am on the fence but it doesn't seem like 15-40 tags will affect the archery hunt that much other than the guys that are sitting on big Bulls waiting for opening day. I would love to have an early rifle tag but I doubt I have the patience to wait that long. (Sitting on 7 points now and it gets harder every year to not burn them on an archery hunt)

 

BUT, if the archey and early firearm hunt were to rotate each year I bet your odds would go up a bit for an early rifle tag on the years it goes after the archery hunt.

[AZMSK]

Because there has never been a early firearm hunt before the early archery hunt nobody really knows how its going to effect the two types of hunts? Could be good, could be bad, might not make any difference at all who knows? That's why the ABA is asking the commission and the department to hold off on making a bunch of changes let this unit 9 muzzy hunt run for a couple of years get some hunt data survey the hunters and use the information to make there proposals.

[208muley]

If azgfd is "discussing" this then be rest assured that the decision has already been made. They will now go through the song and dance of "public input" but it's a done deal IMO.

 

Now if 20,000 bow hunters showed up at 1 meeting maybe, and that's a big maybe, they wouldn't make the change but we all know that won't happen.

[Alpinebullwinkle]

Interesting debate. One which I am not sure which side to take even though I apply for both archery/gun September hunts only now for trophy hunting considerations (and other reasons as well). I recognize some advantages for both gun and archery hunters with this possible change. A couple of facts I have learned in +40 years of hunting Unit #27 are the crazy (rut) season always kicks in between September 22-24 and "officially" ends about October 5. There is a second more brief rut mid October for un-bred cows. By November 1st most of the bugling ceases. If we pick the right spot to archery hunt the first day (September 10-15), and get lucky locating a herd with a cow in heat, we can enjoy a very exciting first day or so of the hunt. Shortly after the first day the hunting pressure causes about five days of silence with the only bugling being nocturnal or close to sunup/sundown. Generally speaking the 400 class bulls show up to the dance late in the hunt. They remain in remote locations allowing the smaller bulls to round up the herd and then come in to kick their butt and take over the show. That is how they get to be bigger bulls......by missing most of the hunting pressure. Once they gain control of the herd or the cows they desire they will move them back into the remote locations for more privacy and protection. The Wallow Fire has changed many of the elk's normal behaviors and this is one of them. I believe that is why we had a couple of years with a greater percentage of 400 class archery bulls taken compared to the norm. Having said that, the last two years seem to be reverting back to the norm. The September gun and muzzleloader hunts have been disappointing in Unit #27 with very few bulls over 320 being taken by gun while there were some monster archery bulls harvested earlier. This is one reason I can understand September gun hunters complaining after waiting 10+ years for their opportunity and then only viewing "smaller sized" bulls. I'm taking a wait and see approach to how this all unfolds but there definitely will be some strategy considerations how I apply going forward if Unit #27 sees some of the same changes as this year Unit #9.