Youth Application Age - The Unanswerable Question

[rossislider]

Before I pose this question I'll explain the situation. My 9 year old daughter will turn 10 this year on October 13th. I would like to put her application in for some of the youth hunts that open on October 12th. If she were drawn we simply wouldn't hunt the opening day and start on her birthday. Here lies the problem, I have read through he regs and rule books on the subject of youth hunter age multiple times. The only specification is that the youth hunter must be 10 in order to hunt big game. NOWHERE does it specify that they must be 10 prior to the opening day of the hunt.

 

In a past year I helped a friend try to put his son for a hunt in a similar situation where the hunter turned 10 somewhere during the course hunt, but after opening day. The online application process would not let us complete the application because the hunter would not be 10 by opening day. So when people have asked this question in the past, I have always give the answer that they must be 10 prior to opening day. But, there in nowhere that I can find in the AZGFD rules that states this.

 

I have now had a conversation with an individual at the east Mesa AZGFD office and another individual at the main office in Phoenix. Both were stumped and neither were able to answer this question about age on opening day vs a birthday during the hunt and why the application would not be accepted. Based on the way the rules are explained in the regs, I can't see any reason why someone in my daughter's situation should not be able to apply for a hunt in this situation, provided they begin their hunt on or after their birthday. Since the online application will likely not accept the application, I am tempted to just do a paper application for her. However, I do not want to run the risk of having her application tossed/rejected. Last night I reached out to a friend who also happens to be an AZGFD warden out of Mesa. He was able to get me the contact information for the person who oversees the draw, and I plan to reach out to her today.

 

In the meantime I am curious who may have run into this situation in the past and was anyone ever able to get a clear answer? Seems to me that unless their is a specific rule that states 10 on or prior to opening day, someone turning 10 during the hunt should be able to apply.

 

Thanks

[jim]

I ran into that with my grand daughter. I did not look into it any more as I just applied for hunts that fell after her birthday.

[rossislider]

I ran into that with my grand daughter. I did not look into it any more as I just applied for hunts that fell after her birthday.

I'm leaning towards doing this as well, but it seems that if no one at AZGFD can answer the question, they need to allow it, fix the online app, promise they will accept the paper app, or clarify the rule. Unfortunately, it is not in my nature to just let something like this go. There are definite advantages to putting her in for the youth hunt (time of year, cost, her fall break from school, fewer hunters to compete with, etc.) that I would really like to take advantage of.

 

This will affect both the elk and the deer draw as their will be youth hunts that weekend for both species.

[Shedhunteraz]

As long as she is 10 during the hunt she can hunt after her 10th bday

[IA Born]

I was in that situation when applying for the 2017 deer hunts for my son, who turned 10 in the middle of the Unit16 youth ML hunt. I had someone point it out in the regs to me. I'll try to find it. I went to the Flagstaff AGFD office and asked and they confirmed it. Its something I've been talking to them about, especially when they bring up hunter retention and recruiting youth into hunting. It needs to change. I'll try and find it in the regs, but I've had it texted to me before.

[IA Born]

Found it. R12-4-104. Pg 113 in the 2017-2018 Regs.

 

R12-4-104

Application Procedures for Issuance of Hunt Permit-tags by Computer Draw and Purchase of Bonus

Points

A. For the purposes of this Section, “group” means all appli- cants who placed their names on

a single application as part of the same application.

B. A person is eligible to apply:

1. For a hunt permit-tag if the person:

a. Is at least 10 years of age at the start of the hunt for which the person is applying;

b. Has successfully completed a Department- sanctioned hunter education course

by the start date of the hunt for which the person is applying, when the person is under the age

of 14;

c. Has not reached the bag limit established under subsection (J) for that genus; and

d. Is not suspended or revoked in this state as a result of an action under A.R.S.

§§ 17-340 or 502 at the time the person submits an applica-

tion.

[IA Born]

 

I ran into that with my grand daughter. I did not look into it any more as I just applied for hunts that fell after her birthday.

I'm leaning towards doing this as well, but it seems that if no one at AZGFD can answer the question, they need to allow it, fix the online app, promise they will accept the paper app, or clarify the rule. Unfortunately, it is not in my nature to just let something like this go. There are definite advantages to putting her in for the youth hunt (time of year, cost, her fall break from school, fewer hunters to compete with, etc.) that I would really like to take advantage of.

 

This will affect both the elk and the deer draw as their will be youth hunts that weekend for both species.

 

 

Petition the Commission. I'll be using some inside channels to try and push it forward, too. I don't remember the reason I was given for it this summer when I confirmed it for my son, but It really does need to change!

[rossislider]

 

Found it. R12-4-104. Pg 113 in the 2017-2018 Regs.

 

R12-4-104

Application Procedures for Issuance of Hunt Permit-tags by Computer Draw and Purchase of Bonus

Points

A. For the purposes of this Section, “group” means all appli- cants who placed their names on

a single application as part of the same application.

B. A person is eligible to apply:

1. For a hunt permit-tag if the person:

a. Is at least 10 years of age at the start of the hunt for which the person is applying;

b. Has successfully completed a Department- sanctioned hunter education course

by the start date of the hunt for which the person is applying, when the person is under the age

of 14;

c. Has not reached the bag limit established under subsection (J) for that genus; and

d. Is not suspended or revoked in this state as a result of an action under A.R.S.

§§ 17-340 or 502 at the time the person submits an applica-

tion.

 

Ughhh!!! I hate so much about the stupidity of this rule. 10 is 10, let them apply and hunt!

[jim]

It was Antelope that I had the issue with as there are no hunts prior to her October Birthday. I put her in for the junior dec deer hunt so it was no issue with deer. I understand why they do this as not everyone will be honest with the law and some will take their kid before their birthday. The odds of being checked in the field are pretty slim.

[ThomC]

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you move the line then someone else will have the same story. Dont have sex so that your kids are born during the hunting season. Actually get a vasectomy there are too many people now. LOL

[Roosevelt Mark]

One of my boys got screwed because he wasn't 10 when he took hunter safety. They said you had to be 10 for it to count.

 

Oh well we went and did our thing anyway. F em. He never did retake the course. He's 22 now.

[IA Born]

It was Antelope that I had the issue with as there are no hunts prior to her October Birthday. I put her in for the junior dec deer hunt so it was no issue with deer. I understand why they do this as not everyone will be honest with the law and some will take their kid before their birthday. The odds of being checked in the field are pretty slim.

 

That was it and it made sense when they explained it to me last summer. Thanks for the reminder of why I gut-checked myself when I first complained.

[rossislider]

You have to draw the line somewhere. If you move the line then someone else will have the same story. Dont have sex so that your kids are born during the hunting season. Actually get a vasectomy there are too many people now. LOL

I think the line is pretty clear and what I suggest would clarify and simplify it for everyone. I don't see any grounds to move the line for someone else. If they are legal to hunt at 10, why should it matter where in the hunt they turn 10 as long as the hunt is open and they don't start hunting till that day. Obviously you wouldn't be able to apply if they turn 10 the day after the hunt ends, but if it is during the hunt, why not?

[bonecollector]

One of my boys got screwed because he wasn't 10 when he took hunter safety. They said you had to be 10 for it to count.

 

Oh well we went and did our thing anyway. F em. He never did retake the course. He's 22 now.

Daughter took the hunter ed course when she was 9

[rossislider]

 

It was Antelope that I had the issue with as there are no hunts prior to her October Birthday. I put her in for the junior dec deer hunt so it was no issue with deer. I understand why they do this as not everyone will be honest with the law and some will take their kid before their birthday. The odds of being checked in the field are pretty slim.

 

That was it and it made sense when they explained it to me last summer. Thanks for the reminder of why I gut-checked myself when I first complained.

 

It is a valid point, but poaching is poaching, and someone who did this would be guilty of poaching. The argument that odds of being checked are slim hold for just about everything in hunting. A lot of what we are charged to do when hunting is a honor system.