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Jay Scott

Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

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Wait a minute. Let me see if I have this right.

 

CAPAZ spokesman stated "For the past year CAPAZ has been working to deny the HSUS signature gatherers from collecting the 151,000 + signatures they needed to qualify their initiative."

 

The past year.

 

However at least 2 of the CAPAZ members, Rich Williams VP and Charlie Kellly Treasurer, are also on the commissioner selection board. They are picking, or have picked, the commissioners(including one sworn in last month) that will basically be deciding the fate of this proposal. Am I the only one to see at least somewhat of a conflict of interest here? In the interest of ethics and transparency shouldn't they resign from one or the other position immediately, if not sooner?

 

https://www.azgfd.com/agency/commission/commission-board/

you havent seen anything yet, do you remember back in the day when that one women and her Rancher husband was in the commission or had something to do with that. they also started a CONSERVATION ORGANIZATION. they were dirty as the day was long and only cared about selling out land own tags. this was also during the USO debacle.

Cant remember her name but I know RINGER DOES. they are other ones that need to be watched very closely

 

 

Sue Chilton

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Just finished up episode 424 and Jay, it seems to me like your line of questioning was more to allow Pete to solidify his position versus asking him any member questions that came up earlier in this thread. Also Mr. Cimellaro talks a whole lot about his big victory against the HSUS and the need to have a group like theirs to raise money to fight any future battles since the Department isn't allowed to even comment on some of these types of initiatives, let alone fight them. He then goes on to say that the Department will be the recipient of all monies raised, which will allow them to educate the public as well as fight any future battles with the HSUS or other like-minded organizations. A little inconsistent or am I missing something?

 

Jay, you have come out on older podcasts and talk about how much you like the Utah model which leads me to assume that you are all for this proposition whether you are willing to admit it publicly or not. As an outfitter, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

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Dwarcher, I feel you are missing something. If you go back and write down the questions the members here have asked you will see that Jay asks almost all of them. Seriously people quit looking for zebras!

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I think Jay did just fine getting as much info out as possible at this point.

The only way this works is if they do auction tags, I know this is not popular and the rich guys seem to be the enemy but the fact is they raise the majority of the money going this route.

With that said I don't believe this is the way to raise the money and I would not support anything involving tags at this point.

I would rather have a separate Arizona tax on hunting related products to raise the money or something in that relm.

If you look at the math from last years Expo in Utah the majority of the money raised was auction tags. 2 auction tags raised almost as much money as the entire azbiggameraffle for 10 tags nation wide. The raffle tag model will not work in my opinion, and tossing numbers like 100,150 tags makes my stomach turn, also hearing someone try to tell me that that number is such a small percentage of the total tags is even worse. Draw odds in AZ are terrible as it is, driving them down will only alienate more potential hunters or even current ones.

I agree 100 percent on the need for education of the public that does not understand AZGF, Hunting, Fishing, and general public lands issues. As a new hunter I dove right in and joined conservation groups and devoured information from guys like Steve Renella, Cam Hanes, Joe Rogan, Randy Newburg, and more. I myself have converted my anti hunting Vegan Mother to the point that she would actually support hunting if confronted with the chance. I have met many people who are just not in touch with this part of their world and unfortunately these are the people who decide on issues like the Cat hunting Ban. HSUS is very good at getting to these voters by playing on their lack of knowledge on the subject. An article or add written by HSUS can easily leave out details and sway the uninformed voter to slowly take all hunting away.

Education is going to be essential in the future not only to help keep public lands open but to keep conservation efforts like hunting in the hands of biologists and science based groups like AZGF.

It would help maybe if all of the numerous conservation groups who receive millions of dollars in support from sportsman and woman could get together in a think tanks situation and come up with something to help with education of the non hunting community, this is not just an Arizona issue, every state is going to need similar ideas.

Anyway Just My Thoughts

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This is how I understand the proposal to lay out. It is basically a dual action approach. Please direct your questions about the Conserve and Protect plan to the info email they have provided. But this comes from our meeting on Wednesday night.

 

Action 1 - Raise money to educate the public on the importance of Wildlife Management. This is where the potential use of tag raffles and auctions come in. The funds from the Tags would be used for this cause. The money would not be held within Conserve and Protect rather it would be similar to the HPC process.

 

Action 2 - Build resources within Conserve and Protect to fight . Have a group in place that is able to do the things needed that critter groups such as ours cannot do. ADBSS is concerned about Sheep, AES is concerned about Elk, ADA is concerned about deer.... critter groups are not able to fight the "HSUS" type pf political fights, neither is AZGFD.

Why is there a need for this organiztion to raise funds to educate? My understanding is that the azgfd can fund an education campaign themselves.

This! I seen In a commission meeting about a month ago they were talking about finding vendors such as cabellas to ask if you would like to round up your bill and donate the change to the Arizona game and fish like they do with other things like Phoenix childrens hospital does with fast food restaurants. Why couldnt that be pushed to education.

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For those that are interested. I was told that an explanation of how the fight / funds to defeat HSUS is posted on conserve and protects site. I have not read it nor do I know what it says I am simply passing on info....

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Dwarcher, I feel you are missing something. If you go back and write down the questions the members here have asked you will see that Jay asks almost all of them. Seriously people quit looking for zebras!

Heather, we appreciate that you trust everything these people are saying but you have to see the other side of things were talking about. There are a lot of questions to be answered. When things like whtmtnhunter said come up it just puts more questions on top of things that people already don't trust. Several members of this new group are from the group in 2012 that tried pushing this stuff through without telling anyone. So naturally people question their motives this time around. It's good and great that this group came together to be a part of stopping the lion hunting ban. I know what they did specifically to help but it's far from being able to say they were the sole reason it got stopped. Several reasons came together all of which helped. They did what they said they were gonna do this time around and that's great but now turning over power of our tags to them and just trusting them completely would be a bad idea. I don't care what the subject is it's never a good idea to give one small group of people that kind of power. I understand the need for funds to help in the next fight but boundaries need to be set. No group out there is going to have the budget the HSUS has for stuff like this so a big worry is when 1 million isnt enough what's gonna stop them from saying we need 5 million and start taking more tags? Prove the money is gonna go where they say and their intentions are truthful. They have a lot of prove to hunters of az before we trust them with our tags. And with the 2012 thing they are starting off with even less trust than any other group that could be put together. I truly believe raffle tickets only with limits on tickets per person and non transferrable tags will help them reach their goal. Mix that with donations they can receive and also the money they are gonna make off the banquet to raffle these tags and other items they could raffle off they could bring in a good chunk of change. But if they jump straight to more auction tags now or in the future their intentions will be obvious. Let's wait to see what's said in the meetings and all the info passed out but they have a thin line to walk right now and one shady thing could turn everyone against them. I hope they do the right thing and their intentions are honest. They need to have meeting specific to this subject and not just during already organized groups meetings. Talking all of the board members and commissioners and give ample warning of when those meetings will be so we can show up and ask the hard questions.
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Blake, I don't trust anyone completely. I do and have looked at both sides of the issue, but let's stop putting words in people's mouths. AzSFWC and/or CAPAz did not say they were the only ones that stopped HSUS/AFW. They give credit to the new strict compliance laws and the change in how petitioners are paid. They also credit the HSUS sex scandal and the help of other Orgs and individuals on the streets. Am I reading and listening to different articles/podcasts than everyone else?

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Blake, I don't trust anyone completely. I do and have looked at both sides of the issue, but let's stop putting words in people's mouths. AzSFWC and/or CAPAz did not say they were the only ones that stopped HSUS/AFW. They give credit to the new strict compliance laws and the change in how petitioners are paid. They also credit the HSUS sex scandal and the help of other Orgs and individuals on the streets. Am I reading and listening to different articles/podcasts than everyone else?

If I'm not mistaking that link you just posted was something that was just very recently put together. Do you know when it was posted? Because it's the first thing I've read that CAPAZ didnt take full credit.

But what they have done for sure is make it known that their way is the only way to save hunting as we know it. Last I checked in the last thirty years there have been two major attempte to take some hunting and trapping rights. One for trapping in the 90s and one for cat hunting just now. Yes there could be more in the future but youd think we've been battling these groups year after year since the beginning of time. Pete himself said in the last podcast the HSUS has unlimited money and if they want something passed then more than likely they are gonna get it passed. So what do we think $2 million is gonna do against $150 million? When they come back and beat us anyway then what happens?

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What is the name of the Utah version Azsfwc? I want to do some before and after comparisons?

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