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Jay Scott

Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

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$20,000 AZ Deer Association Round Valley Grassland Restoration

$29,829 AZ Elk Society Phase II Long Valley Meadow Restoration

$7,262 AZ Chapter NWTF 2018 Marving Robbins Youth Camp

$6,000 Shoot Right Pop-Up 3D Archery Range Equipment

$1,000 AZ Chapter NWTF 2017 Robbins Butte Youth Camp

$2,850 Kahunas Kids Mentoring Kids Fishing Derby

$6,110 Desert Christian Archers Archery Equipment

$7,000 AZ Chapter Trout Unlimited Trout in the Classroom 2017-2018 School Year

$5,000 AZ Deer Association Youth Deer & Elk Camp

$1,780 AZ Outdoor Sports Veterans Target Shoot & Pheasant Hunt $

40,000 AZ Chapter NWTF Pinaleno Restoration Habitat Project

$11,373 AZ Shooting Sports Education Foundation Scholastic Clay Program Competition Vests

$7,262 AZ Chapter NWTF 2017 Marvin Robbins Youth Turkey Hunting Camps

$19,824 AZ Elk Society Long Valley Meadow Restoration Habitat Project

$3,600 Mohave Sportsman Club Fishing for Smiles

$1,775 AZ Chapter Trout Unlimited 8th Annual Native and Wild Trout Conference

Question for the people that are completely against AZSFW- this is from the license plate grants. $170,665 out of $180,000. This is good right?

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Blake, I don't trust anyone completely. I do and have looked at both sides of the issue, but let's stop putting words in people's mouths. AzSFWC and/or CAPAz did not say they were the only ones that stopped HSUS/AFW. They give credit to the new strict compliance laws and the change in how petitioners are paid. They also credit the HSUS sex scandal and the help of other Orgs and individuals on the streets. Am I reading and listening to different articles/podcasts than everyone else?

Um NO THEY DID NOT, see lances post here

then click on the picture and READ it

http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/77500-save-arizona/

 

Pistol PETE and other opposition groups claimed that HSUS was using it as an excuse and that it didnt happen that way. but of coarse Pistol Pete is going to change the story to look like a hero when its convenient, thats was scum bags do.

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Guys:

 

Someone want to explain what is meant by "education?"

 

Not sure what it's called with today's political correctness, but Game and Fish used to have a division it called "Information and Education," with a staff of people who distributed press releases to news media, provided speakers for meetings of clubs and businesses, "worked" booths at outdoor shows, provided interviews and public service announcements for radio and TV programs, produced its own TV show, hosted things like that annual outdoor show in central Arizona, published books and informational material, worked with groups that taught kids how to hunt and fish, conducted hunter-safety and boating-safety programs, and on and on.

 

I'm confident that division still exists. If anything, its programs and the funds it spends annually probably have expanded since my work required I "cover" the agency. I have no idea what it has spent on "education" since the late 1960s when I first became aware of the good work it was doing, but it easily should be in multiple millions of dollars.

 

A problem arises when it comes to political issues, such as the recent HSUS mountain lion initiative. As a public agency, managing wildlife for all Arizonans, Game and Fish must avoid the appearance of endorsing one side or the other, especially if it launched a public relations campaign to thwart a movement to manage wildlife by emotion and "educate" voters.

 

Building a war chest to fight the next attack from PETA and HSUS, which surely will come, makes sense. Whether those funds come from raffling and/or auctioning tags, donations, or whatever, we need it be ready. Game and Fish can't do it. It must come from outside government.

 

Bill Quimby

 

Bill I been waiting for that definition as well. its kinda like the old excuess " Well its for the Children"

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I hate seeing one class of people being catered to with the outcome(auction tags). I don't care what class of people it is,,from a convict with empty pockets or the richest of the rich there's something wrong when one class is benefiting the most. If this iniciative benefited the average Jo more than the rich I would be against it also. It has nothing to do with class warfare in any way, and is all about a specific few getting more access to more tags. Quadruple the auction tags needed to generate the money and make those raffle tags. Then everyone pays the price on availability of said tags. They can hold a giant raffle at the proposed new convention and guess what they will probably have a bigger turn out on ticket sales than Utah. Anything but the Utah model which has shown to be very divinding for sportsman in general. Any questions about this go read any post about the sfw on any site, none of its not dividing. There's lots of sportsman that avoid the Utah convention just becasue of the feelings that many are expressing on here about tag Grabs and auctions. Has the group representing this new tag grab set up some kkmda site where you can donate funds to avoid the tag grab. Maybe put the average sportsman to the test and give it a trial period where they can donate and maybe everyone would be surprised. Of course there would need to be total transparency on those funds donated also.

Listen it's great that these groups want to help but I still stick to the fact that the fix is always more access for one class of people. There are millions and millions if not billions sitting in the average Jo's pocket collectively. Why can't that be tapped somehow. These groups know how to do this but most likely that isn't going to be put forth becasue of the actual intentions this group has with generating more money for themselves in some way and so the one " chosen " group of people gets what they specifically want and that's more access to tags.

I have a simple fix, set up a fund where the rich and the lowest of all classes can contribute. Complete transparency on those funds available on the Internet and let the fun begin. Everyone in one boat all fighting for the same end result. And everyone pulls the weight of each or equally,, as in classes of peolle. The sfw/ Utah model is a joke and so are the people that run the sfw. Nothing in the history of hunting could be more dividing to the sport than the sfw model. Inherantly it reaks and envokes class warfare with its model the way it's set up. Spare me there isn't a better way. What we have here is one group that actually got together to help , and I applaud them for that, but this group came in with the blinders on and just said lets raid the cookie jar and sell it to the select few. End of Meeting. The list of things or ways to do this raising of funds had one entry and that entry was " get more tags" for auction. If someone asked how about the second idea on the list they were lokked at with evil stares or the most dumbfounded face you've ever seen casue there was no second Idea on the list. And would bet there wasn't a second idea given any thought to becasue it wouldn't have benefitted just one class of people. Pay attention to who supports this fellas. Remeber their stance for the future. Pin down some of the people on here and make them say where they finally stood on this when it passes. Remember who rallied for it , and remember who helped it get passed. I have a feeling many will never give you their answer ans you will know why. Becasue they know what this is about and it's not the feathers you see on the outside stapled to the wolf underneath. When this is all said and done ask your big names in the industry to publicly announce where they stand on this. I have a feeling the sneaky ones will not answer that question.

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They have the majority on the new board so SFW will have control. I was already told that it was SFW that had the political expertise to run the tag program. If you think G&F will control all of the money you are a sucker. The money raised may go to some nefarious cause like HSUS or PETA but the management of the tag sales will be done by outfitters, rich girls and SFW. They still have not answered a single question on what the new group did with the $250000 to fight the lion initiative. So much for transparency. They want Arizona big game tags to auction off. That is all I need to know. Better rally the troops now as they are already trying to stack the commission like they did in Utah. Hope this phony train is not too far down the tracks.

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Blake...I have made my thoughts very clear in are conversations. You know my stance I also made it very clear Im not part of conserve and protect but I know the players very well. I also made it clear there is no plan in place just a concept and that I had not listened to the pod cast prior to are conversation so I had no idea what was said in them. You are well aware Im not for the kings deer concept.....But I am in favor of a plan that will raise the funds needed to fight the fight whatever that fight looks like....

 

The current wildlife organizations are taxed in what they can do....All the work that gets done is done by volunteers!!!!

They ALL put up a huge amount of money to fight off HSUS....THEY ARE the people do the work behind the scenes so that the average sportsman can enjoy the sport. And there are almost NO new volunteers coming in....You all ask why you always see the same names pop up...Its because they have been involved for yrs and there is NO ONE else that is willing to do ANYTHING....

 

If every sportsman in Az gave 20.00 Dollars a year we would never have this conversation. But they wont give a dime...

There are 27 #### pages of you and everyone else on the site screaming about the Dept raising tag fees a few yrs back. You all were gonna be living in a card board box down in the river because of it. Now you want the dept to add a special fee to fight the fight !!!!

 

Ultimately it does not matter what the Dept or any wildlife organizations proposed the average sportsman is going to complain. Its what they do best !!! Someone is getting screwed or not getting theres , someone might have an advantage the list goes on and on

What organization do you head? I need to join.

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I wasn't screaming about tag fees. I said double them if you need to. The tag fees are a bargain as it is right now. If raising tag fees kept the " few" from benefiting from this tag grab I would pay double tomorrow. Triple the auction tags and have them go to a raffle. We could all play bingo together at the convention with fist fulls of raffle tickets. One table a plumber jumps up with the number called for a tag , and the next table a billionaire jumps up winning his called number. Everyone having fun together sounds great. Why not??

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I wasn't screaming about tag fees. I said double them if you need to. The tag fees are a bargain as it is right now. If raising tag fees kept the " few" from benefiting from this tag grab I would pay double tomorrow. Triple the auction tags and have them go to a raffle. We could all play bingo together at the convention with fist fulls of raffle tickets. One table a plumber jumps up with the number called for a tag , and the next table a billionaire jumps up winning his called number. Everyone having fun together sounds great. Why not??

I like it.

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Idgaf,

What conclusion are you looking for on this?

post-11427-0-84557000-1523748110_thumb.png

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No money generated by selling tags could be used to oppose political initiatives. The 'need' for this money is being misrepresented.

 

Kent

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No money generated by selling tags could be used to oppose political initiatives. The 'need' for this money is being misrepresented.

 

Kent

Then I don't understand why raising tag fees wouldn't take care of this emergency. Our deer , elk , antelope tags are super low. There isn't a single member on here that wouldn't pay double for one of those tags. If people are willing to wait 25 years to get an antelope tag they would certainly pay a 125 or more for the tag now. What is an antelope tag cost right now, like 75 dollars. And throw in the public to donate.

I think the average sportsman should be put to the test. This doesn't have to Involve being knee deep in an organization. It could just be ones pocket book. Who cares who's pissed off at the game and fish if they raise tag prices, in the lomg run everyone's going to still put in. Everyone knows this. Have a separate habitat stamp or something sold that's dedicated to education. Heck have a stamp sold that's to keep auction tags from increasing. The anti auction tag stamp. Maybe have the organization that's for this tag grab put together a list of other alternatives and have the Sportmsn vote on various other ideas. A couple on here keep saying to get off our keyboards. Maybe it would be easier to have the groups representing us to broaden their horizons and look outside the box of auction tags. Which is easier to do get everyone off their asses and keyboards or the group representing us already go back to the drawing board ruling out auction tags and see where those "

Smart " minds come up with,,with all that brainpower. I would bet if some dude offered to pay for the monies so desperately needed

For this initiative that this group wouldn't accept that and still would go after the tags.

Someone please tell me how the sfw model hasn't been the most dividing for Sportman in general, and cite how it hasn't been that dividing. Thank god the average Jo isn't as stupid as this group thinks we are.

" get off your keyboards and do something" isn't a valid response to what's being purposed. These are the same people saying this that whine about trump / Obama on political forums but do just that sit there and whine on their keyboard. It's a childish answer from someone trying to ram something sour down your throat. I'll bet when they whine about their gripes about Obama or trump they don't go down to some political group and volunteer the next day. Just saying.

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Another 5 bucks during application would generate over 1 million.

 

But the problem remains that these monies can't be used to challenge political initiatives.

 

Kent

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I guess this means bake sale!

21 pages is nearing the end of my attention span. I think most valid points have been made and argued

I can sell Cheeseburgers

post-11427-0-25862400-1523756419.jpg

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