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Jay Scott

Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

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Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read so far is that the AZGF can't legally deal with anything political so a third party is needed(Conserve and Protect) to fight these political battles for us. The third party S&P wants the AZGF to give them tags to raffle and auction off to generate money to fight the bad guys. After which 100% of the money generated from these raffle/auction tags is then given back to the AZGF where it legally can't be used for what the sole purpose of it being raised in the first place. If this is correct how does the Serve and Protect guys get the money needed to help us fight the political bad guys if 100% of raised tag monies goes back to the AZGF?

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C&PAZ/SFW brought one idea to the table which essentially was the initiative that was passionately shot down in 2012 and one that is generally seen as a complete flop in Utah (also under investigation). I'm sure these guys burned the midnight oil and got into some heated debates just like this one while grinding over option after option of raising money, all before coming back to the same 2012 initiative in a new dress...

 

Those of you bashing members of this forum for being idiots, not getting off their ___ , etc... seem to be the only people here that are resorting to slander and are bringing the debate down to your level. Please knock it off.

 

When you come to the table with a single idea to any challenge and that one idea is not fair to all - this what you get. Do those of you in support really feel this proposal is the ONLY and/or BEST option out there? How is it that a group of dedicated sportsman with the support of an affluent base, can only come up with a single proposed solution? Flatlander in particular has thrown down a slew of great suggestions that should come long before allocating tags to a special interest group. If C&PAZ/SFW worked as hard to pursue their mission statements as they do obtaining premium tags, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

They do not represent us. They represent the few. We need to put words to action and rally up those that have the future hunting at the heart of their decisions to get involved.

 

I encourage and ask any of the board members that are truly vested in the best interest of hunting, conservation, preservation, too:

Separate yourselves from these C&PAZ/SFW individuals whom are not trusted and have a track record of selfish motivation. Hit the reset button and help organize a team of people w/o individual agendas. There are plenty of us out here and we just need some help getting the wheels off the ground.

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It's called "bait and switch". They want to be like Utah SFW, admitted it in the first podcast. The final draft of this deal will include them keeping at least 70% of the money generated from the tags.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read so far is that the AZGF can't legally deal with anything political so a third party is needed(Conserve and Protect) to fight these political battles for us. The third party S&P wants the AZGF to give them tags to raffle and auction off to generate money to fight the bad guys. After which 100% of the money generated from these raffle/auction tags is then given back to the AZGF where it legally can't be used for what the sole purpose of it being raised in the first place. If this is correct how does the Serve and Protect guys get the money needed to help us fight the political bad guys if 100% of raised tag monies goes back to the AZGF?

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Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read so far is that the AZGF can't legally deal with anything political so a third party is needed(Conserve and Protect) to fight these political battles for us. The third party S&P wants the AZGF to give them tags to raffle and auction off to generate money to fight the bad guys. After which 100% of the money generated from these raffle/auction tags is then given back to the AZGF where it legally can't be used for what the sole purpose of it being raised in the first place. If this is correct how does the Serve and Protect guys get the money needed to help us fight the political bad guys if 100% of raised tag monies goes back to the AZGF?

I'm FINALLY hours and hours deep into this deal between Jay's podcasts, 23 pages of reading, mulling through multiple websites, and feel like I can have an opinion here... but this is also my understanding. There have been a number of points raised throughout and this is one that I have not picked up on a single response to support otherwise.

 

Has this question been answered anywhere yet?

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Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read so far is that the AZGF can't legally deal with anything political so a third party is needed(Conserve and Protect) to fight these political battles for us. The third party S&P wants the AZGF to give them tags to raffle and auction off to generate money to fight the bad guys. After which 100% of the money generated from these raffle/auction tags is then given back to the AZGF where it legally can't be used for what the sole purpose of it being raised in the first place. If this is correct how does the Serve and Protect guys get the money needed to help us fight the political bad guys if 100% of raised tag monies goes back to the AZGF?

 

I'm FINALLY hours and hours deep into this deal between Jay's podcasts, 23 pages of reading, mulling through multiple websites, and feel like I can have an opinion here... but this is also my understanding. There have been a number of points raised throughout and this is one that I have not picked up on a single response to support otherwise.

 

Has this question been answered anywhere yet?

No, and nobody will answer it. We are a bunch of deplorables that don’t know what is good for us. They have walked in circles and sidestepped around every good question that gets thrown at them, only answering questions that are to their own benefit. They say that money can only be raised in certain ways, legally, yet that money still can’t be spent for politcal purposes, legally. Makes no sense. The execs at CAP are the commissioner appointing board, which recently appointed our new commissioner that just so hallens to be all about this. This BS idea could not get more red tape wrapped around it if they tried to

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Flatlander...I dont recall saying ANYONES ideas we bad or would not work.... I am all for more ideas.....My statement about get off your #### and do something is more to point out that there have been several very good ideas and points brought up but other then post them here not one person has posted a good idea or thought and then followed up on it and come back and posted what they have found what will and wont work....and more to the point that if we all work together we can find solutions to not just this issue but many others that we as sportsman face.....The Bottom line is if you have an idea or thoughts do something with it dont wait for someone else to do the work....posted ideas and thoughts are great if someone does something with them....

 

And just to be clear this is not in anyway shape or form the ADAs idea....And I Dont speak on behalf of the ADA these are MY PERSONAL OPINIONS.....No one at the ADA can or will make any decisions that will change anything Conserveand and protect decides to do.....

 

And I cant find anywhere that I have said this is the only way....I have asked repeatedly for more ideas...All I have said over and over is we as sportsman need to do something to find a reliable fundraising source to fight the fight

 

 

Furthermore the statement about the average sportsman sitting behind their keyboard and not doing anything was meant as a very blanket statement.....Yes directly pointed and some posters here but more at the fact their are over 250.000 sportsman that hunt in this state and the OVERWHELMING majority dont do anything more then buy a license and an occasional tag....and thats great if your ok with the consequences of that but as you are well aware of there is a tremendous amount more thats needs to be done and we as sportsman need to do it....Not just hunters but everyone that uses the outdoors

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Write the commissioners, write the governor and write your legislators. Explain what is being attempted and the background from 2012 and the Utah facts. Best to get people at the top level of politics involved. The last time they used Jerry Wiers and his daughter so you know they have already plead their case to people at the top this time around. Write democrats and republicans and ask for them to look into this effort. Sunlight is the best way to kill parasites.

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This is a post from the C&P facebook page.

Maybe im wrong but the way I see it is, as long as Pete can get these auction tags then his people will then in turn make a good size donation.

 

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I will try and answer the question to the best of my knowledge.....I someone finds differently please post it....

I was told this morning that there are two groups......One is conserve and protect and the other one is conserve and Protect Arizona.

I dont know what the difference is !!!!

 

The one that is proposing this will take the funds generated and give all 100% of the monies raised to the department. Something similar to the HPC model this money would be used to educate the public on the importance of the dept Ect.....there would be a board of individuals much like the HPC board that would with the department decide how to best spend the money

 

The other group is on their own to raise money to do the other work that needs to be done....Apparently through banquet, non tag raffles private donations and monies donated by the current wildlife organizations Ect....

 

Can someone PLEASE attend a meeting or make a call and see what they can find out...

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Makes no sense. We don't need an education program to convince a few thousand people that hunting is good. This entire discussion started with fighting HSUS and PETA groups on political issues. That would be politics. Tell us if they used the $250000 for the HSUS to sell their tag program to politicians. If not then how exactly did they use that money and what impact did it have on signature collecting? Name the firm they hired. They don't need to sell tags for education funds. They wanted to sell tags for political fights. No one has explained how that will work. Will it just generate funds for SFW to use for their political goals? If so then all of the groups better get in line to lick some boots. Too much secrecy on this one. Let's see and exact accounting of who got the money including any political contributions.

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I will try and answer the question to the best of my knowledge.....I someone finds differently please post it....

I was told this morning that there are two groups......One is conserve and protect and the other one is conserve and Protect Arizona.

I dont know what the difference is !!!!

 

The one that is proposing this will take the funds generated and give all 100% of the monies raised to the department. Something similar to the HPC model this money would be used to educate the public on the importance of the dept Ect.....there would be a board of individuals much like the HPC board that would with the department decide how to best spend the money

 

The other group is on their own to raise money to do the other work that needs to be done....Apparently through banquet, non tag raffles private donations and monies donated by the current wildlife organizations Ect....

 

Can someone PLEASE attend a meeting or make a call and see what they can find out...

So to get it straight NONE of the money generated by the tags will actually be able to fight the political fight that they say we desperately need money to fight? All the money generated by the tags will go to the education side of things and then we just hope the rich guys donate a bunch of money to CAPAZ to be able to fight the political stuff?
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Ringer this isn’t about convincing a few thousand people That hunting is good good. It’s about convincing the ENTIRE population of the state that are Department knows what’s best for ALL game and non game species in the state. Not some outside group.

 

It’s my understanding that the explanation of how the funds were spent to fight HSUS is posted on conserve and protects site I have not viewed it so I can’t tell you what it says. I have asked that a copy of it be sent to me to post here....

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Blake...Please direct your questions to them either through e mail or call them or attend a Q And A session.....This is my understanding of the concept and I have made it very clear I am not part of the group!!!!

 

It does not matter what I say or what info I bring to the site....I get my head kicked in by someone...

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I will try and answer the question to the best of my knowledge.....I someone finds differently please post it....

I was told this morning that there are two groups......One is conserve and protect and the other one is conserve and Protect Arizona.

I dont know what the difference is !!!!

 

The one that is proposing this will take the funds generated and give all 100% of the monies raised to the department. Something similar to the HPC model this money would be used to educate the public on the importance of the dept Ect.....there would be a board of individuals much like the HPC board that would with the department decide how to best spend the money

 

The other group is on their own to raise money to do the other work that needs to be done....Apparently through banquet, non tag raffles private donations and monies donated by the current wildlife organizations Ect....

 

Can someone PLEASE attend a meeting or make a call and see what they can find out...

So to get it straight NONE of the money generated by the tags will actually be able to fight the political fight that they say we desperately need money to fight? All the money generated by the tags will go to the education side of things and then we just hope the rich guys donate a bunch of money to CAPAZ to be able to fight the political stuff?

 

It's a win-win! The rich guys from back east get their yearly auction tags in unit 9(win for them)! And maybe they will give some money to fight the political causes(win for us). But they don't come here to hunt lions anyways, so won't bother them if we lose the lion fight here! And when we lose the lion hunts they still get to keep their elk, deer, and sheep hunts. I'm sure it will work out great.

 

We are lucky to not only have 1 group working on our behalf, but this morning we now actually have 2! CAPAZ and now CAP. This thing looks awesome! LOL

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Blake...Please direct your questions to them either through e mail or call them or attend a Q And A session.....This is my understanding of the concept and I have made it very clear I am not part of the group!!!!

 

It does not matter what I say or what info I bring to the site....I get my head kicked in by someone...

I'm not kicking anyone's head in. I'm trying to clarify if what I read was correct because it blew my mind. This things going downhill fast. It was one thing to be able to convince people with the part about this money would be used to fight HSUS and now we know it cant. How do they expect people to get on their side with an approach like this? Just getting sketchier and sketchier. And this is coming from one of the few that actually wanted to give this a chance.
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