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Jay Scott

Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

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Also from trophyseeker's link the funds can only be used for the species the tag was for.

 

Kent

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I guess if we want to educate folks about lions we could auction/raffle lion tags.

 

Kent

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Please send comments and questions to info@conserveandprotectaz.org

 

Well Jay, I'm not sure you really wanted questions after your love-fest Podcasts with Pete. I have sent you a respectful PM last week that you have not bothered to read. I also sent questions last Wednesday to Conserve and Protect at their "info" email and am still waiting for an answer to even one of the questions.

 

One of them was do they have an email list to send people updates. You did ask Pete that and he said sure - sign up on their web page as a supporter. Perhaps not everyone who would like to stay informed wants them to be able to list them as a "supporter"! I noticed you did not follow up.

 

I hope you will find time to open your PMs. And I hope C&P will do more than just solicit questions.

Bruce-

I very rarely ever check my pm’s on CWT. Email or Instagram DM is my best form of communication

I have been in Mexico Gould’s turkey hunting. I had messages from some of my friends saying you were trying to reach me. I’m glad we were able to chat on the phone. I’m heading back into Mexico with another group shortly. Hopefully we can talk more later. My email is jayscottoutdoors@gmail.com

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This is my take from last nights meeting. Let me preface what I am about to say with there are some really good people with passion for wildlife and hunting on the ADA. I did not get that feeling some of the leaders of the Conserve and Protect board.

 

One of the things I do for work is negotiate deals, so many times when I ask a question I am not paying attention to what they say but how they react to the question/situation to get a more accurate answer of what they are really thinking. (in poker that would be called 'tells')

 

According to my interpretation of what this contingency is trying to do two things; one is education to the 70% of residents of Arizona that are neither for nor against hunting. Secondly, and more passionately they want to fight the HSUS.

 

According to them they want the tags for education only and to not fight the HSUS. I pushed them a little bit to see how much money they need for education of the non-hunters and finally they came up with an amount of 500-750k. Bruce came up with the idea of adding a 1.00 to hunting licenses to get that amount (534,000 hunting licenses were sold last year according to the elk guy) This was dismissed relatively quickly.

 

Conserve and Protects goal for the evening was to try to figure out how many tags the public would be comfortable with giving them so they can raise money for 'education' My take on this is, they do not just want the tags for money, they want the tags for the prestige of being able to allocate tags like their big brothers(elk society, arizona super raffle, antelope foundation). Because of ego, short of somebody handing them ten million dollars they are fixated on getting tags and as many as they can.

 

HSUS war chest number was thrown around many times and it was a number over 200,000,000. I find that very hard to believe that they would spend .1% of that to end lion hunting in AZ with how quickly they dropped out of the getting lion hunting on the ballot.

 

Once again, in my opinion, they do not want alternatives to raising money for education which may or may not be needed. They want tags. I do not believe they have done the necessary research to quantify anything yet, but that's what these meeting could be used for and maybe some more studying of the numbers. Bruce brought up some very valid points that I would consider and am going to run with a little bit to raise the necessary capitol to move the 70% without an opinion to the hunting side.

 

I feel the super raffle guy and ADA have integrity, they elk guy may, but the Conserve and Protect guy I would not trust. my camera ran out of batteries about twenty minutes into it. if you want to watch the first part, I can post on you tube.

 

Also they made mention that AZFWC is no more and has been disbanded, but I did see a few Freudian slips from the Conserve and Protect guy in regards to AZFWC so you be the judge.

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Idgaf...who is the ADA gentleman you are referring to....I am the Vice President of the ADA and if there is an issue I need to deal with I will do so....But need to know who it is

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The guy with the pony tail at the corner of the tables. If that was you, you had several Freudian slips regarding AZFWC while mentioning that you are not AZFWC.

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I would like it very much if you would post it.

I left my camera on my desk at work(hopefully) I will post in the am

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This is my take from last nights meeting. Let me preface what I am about to say with there are some really good people with passion for wildlife and hunting on the ADA. I did not get that feeling some of the leaders of the board.

 

One of the things I do for work is negotiate deals, so many times when I ask a question I am not paying attention to what they say but how they react to the question/situation to get a more accurate answer of what they are really thinking. (in poker that would be called 'tells')

 

According to my interpretation of what this contingency is trying to do two things; one is education to the 70% of residents of Arizona that are neither for nor against hunting. Secondly, and more passionately they want to fight the HSUS.

 

According to them they want the tags for education only and to not fight the HSUS. I pushed them a little bit to see how much money they need for education of the non-hunters and finally they came up with an amount of 500-750k. Bruce came up with the idea of adding a 1.00 to hunting licenses to get that amount (534,000 hunting licenses were sold last year according to the elk guy) This was dismissed relatively quickly.

 

Their goal for the evening was to try to figure out how many tags the public would be comfortable with giving them so they can raise money for 'education' My take on this is, they do not just want the tags for money, they want the tags for the prestige of being able to allocate tags like their big brothers(elk society, arizona super raffle, antelope foundation). Because of ego, short of somebody handing them ten million dollars they are fixated on getting tags and as many as they can.

 

HSUS war chest number was thrown around many times and it was a number over 200,000,000. I find that very hard to believe that they would spend .1% of that to end lion hunting in AZ with how quickly they dropped out of the getting lion hunting on the ballot.

g

Once again, in my opinion, they do not want alternatives to raising money for education which may or may not be needed. They want tags. I do not believe they have done the necessary research to quantify anything yet, but that's what these meeting could be used for and maybe some more studying of the numbers. Bruce brought up some very valid points that I would consider and am going to run with a little bit to raise the necessary capitol to move the 70% without an opinion to the hunting side.

 

I feel the super raffle guy has integrity, they elk guy may, but the ada guy I would not trust. my camera ran out of batteries about twenty minutes if you want to watch the first part, I can post on you tube.

 

Also they made mention that AZFWC is no more and has been disbanded, but I did see a few Freudian slips from the ADA guy in regards to AZFWC so you be the judge.

idgaf - The main obstacle at this stage is how those funds can be used. If AZGFD generates them in any form, through the current donation channel (as I suggested), stamps, you name it... they will earmark those funds to a general fund. This concept sounds great until we consider what that really means - new trucks, larger PC monitors, fancier decorations, blah blah blah. Isn't that just more of the same ol' lame ol' government gross mismanagement of funds? Who's in for that? Not me. SO, this is where it gets interesting and where the conversation has actually turned a corner.

 

As mentioned in my previous post and to your point as well; yes many of the members at the meeting did not give you the impression that they had much intention of working hard to come up with alternatives. BUT, this is where WE come in to play. These folks are clearly a bit tired of only hearing from hunters when someone sounds the bell and the mob comes running. The very same people who go back to their lives and leave these evil board members to go back to doing all of dirty work we reap rewards from i.e. water tanks being repaired, water hauled, fences mended, and on and on... This group is clearly not getting younger (no offense intended here) and there is NOBODY in line to help fill the void.

 

The more I understand, the less I believe it's about the tags. I could be flat ars wrong. But I don't think so. These people need help, they need fresh ideas, and they need your help to hound the H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS out of the AZGFD reps to figure out a different way to get this job done. If we don't ride this out and get our hands dirty, they are going to get the job done the best they see fit AND we will just have to live with the results.

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Idgaf...that was Jim unmacht who is not with the ADA...He is on the board of conserve and protect...

 

Please edit your previous post I absolutely dont need miss information on the inter web...Thanks Dave

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The guy with the pony tail at the corner of the tables. If that was you, you had several Freudian slips regarding AZFWC while mentioning that you are not AZFWC.

The ADA guy was the one that looked pretty rough and smelled REALLY bad... Sorry. Couldn't let that opportunity slide by. LOL

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Idgaf...that was Jim unmacht who is not with the ADA...He is on the board of conserve and protect...

Please edit your previous post I absolutely dont need miss information on the inter web...Thanks Dave

Thanks for the clarification with that misunderstanding cleared up I truly believe the ada is to be a worthwhile organization with the best best interests of wildlife and hunting at their core. I still disagree with reallocation of tags using the feudal system. I will edit momentarily

 

Fred

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Idgaf...that was Jim unmacht who is not with the ADA...He is on the board of conserve and protect...

Please edit your previous post I absolutely dont need miss information on the inter web...Thanks Dave

From what Im told he was one of the originators of the first tag grab.

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