Sportsmans Input Sought by ConserveandProtectAZ.org-Unit wide Raffle and Auction Tags

[brademan76]

The joining of forces ( the local wildlife organizations ) is exactly how the monies were raised to fight this recent HSUS attack. ( along with donations from a handful of private donors )....The local organizations had made it very clear they cannot continue to put forth those types of funds again and again and continue to do the everyday work they currently do.

 

Then I hope those groups remove any verbiage in their missions or values that eludes to protecting rights, culture, etc.

 

Absolutely no monies raised from tag and or permit fees can go to fight a political agenda. It would take a change to the state constitution. .....Please look into the money, time and effort required to do so. Also the slim chance it would be approved

 

Pittman - Robertson monies would require a complete change to the system country wide.

So rather than go through proper legislative process lets go with the quick and DIRTY fix.

 

Anything worth doing is worth doing right, right? If money can be raised through some backdoor deal to raffle or auction tags, why couldn't some similar back azswards deal requiring everyone to purchase a $15 "conservation/heritage" stamp annually with those funds allocated to X,Y,Z conservation groups for this sort of initiative?

[darrcolburn]

I have a few thoughts on this and will try and keep it brief but there is a lot to say. I personally have not come to a conclusion and want to gather more info and facts and am willing to listen. I am troubled reading all the pages by some of the hate, harsh comments and personal attacks. That will not accomplish anything and create a bigger divide between Sportsmen at a time when we must work together. There has been lots of work going on behind the scenes by groups and individuals to fight HSUS. Almost a quarter of a million dollars was spent in the fight and the following groups contributed financially to pay the bill for Arizona Sportsmen. Please thank the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society, AZ Elk Society, AZ Deer Association, Arizona Bowhunters Association, AZ Houndsmen, Wild Sheep Foundation, Washington Chapter of Wild Sheep Foundation, California Houndsmen, AZ Antelope Foundation, Yuma Valley Rod & Gun Club and NWTF AZ Chapter. I can't imagine what we would be looking at if these groups didn't step up.

I attend 3 to 4 wildlife/sportsmen group meetings per month. The sportsmen listed on Board of Directors for Conserve and Protect have worked tirelessly for wildlife, conservation and AZ Sportsmen for years. Part of the reason some of the names are familiar is due to the volunteer pool for sportsmen being very small. There are just a handful of people that carry the load for these organizations and step up year after year because no one else comes forward. I see the same faces year in and year out volunteering for these organizations. I wish there were new Sportsmen coming to the meetings and stepping up but that is just not the case. It is easier to sit on the sidelines and criticize then it is to roll up your sleeves and get involved. We all have jobs, families and other commitments but a few make sportsmen and wildlife a priority. I may not agree with every single thing the members of the board has ever done but I know their hearts are in the right place and I have a lot of respect for the total work that they have accomplished for AZ wildlife and Sportsmen. I believe Conserve and Protect is willing to listen to ideas and suggestions to get us where we need to be.

AZ Sportsmen need money to ensure the Arizona Game and Fish Department keeps the ability to manage our wildlife and we can continue to be able to hunt. No one can say for certain if HSUS will be back in 2020 or anytime soon. I can promise if and when they do it will not end as quickly as this time and it will cost a lot more money to fight. If we as Sportsmen in Arizona are fractured and don't have reliable funding mechanisms in place I promise they will be back. If we are prepared and organized I feel they make take the fight somewhere else. Once something gets passed by a ballot initiative it is very difficult to reverse. We cannot afford to let that happen again. Sportsmen make up a small portion of the population. We need to educate the non hunting public why hunting is a valuable wildlife management tool that needs to be scientifically managed by our Game and Fish Department and not by ballot initiatives. Other funding sources need to be identified so that we can raise money that can be used for other things that the proposed tag funds could not be used for.

I would like to see some hard numbers on how many tags would be needed, what hunts and how many dollars each would generate. I would much prefer to see raffle tags over auction type tags. When I hear the money from the tags will go towards education it makes me question why the department has not been doing more of this. I know they started a few years back with an add campaign but I can't remember how much they spent on it. I know I would rather lose a few tags if it ensured the future generations would get to enjoy what we do. I believe something needs to be done and lots more discussion needs to take place.

[bonecollector777]

 

 

 

I am yet to be convinced that every hunter in the state should have to sacrifice the opportunity to hunt or take their kids hunting in order to get some rich guys money. The facts are that all of us should contribute to the level we are able and should not do so at the expense of another.

I could not in good conscience use my dollars to take opportunity away from another and call it conservation.

How many hunters receive big game permits each year? What if every hunter in the state GAVE more to conservation than they took? But they don't...they are entitled to it right? and conservation just magically happens...I don't know...Myself I could not in good conscience call "sacrificing" a few tags per hunt for conservation and the preservation of what I love a "sacrifice"...If I did I'd call that selfishness...and we're not even "sacrificing" the tags...EVERYBODY would have the opportunity to buy/bid on the tags...that would actually be another...more...a second opportunity to get a tag. I see it as a way to use our assets (deer elk etc.) to protect our ASSets...

you have an extra 50k-100k laying around to throw at an auction tag? I don't. But what most of us do have is an extra $50-$100 to throw at some raffle tags. And so do the rich guys. So that's why I'm all for raffle tags and no auction tags. Everyone on the same level and money still gets raised.

I cant imagine spending that kind of $ on a tag...doesnt mean Im opposed or against to someone that does...the world will never be on the same level...And I dont see the guy that willing and able to spend 100k...200k on a tag as the enemy...I will still be benefiting from his $ that goes towards something that I love...

sounds like Utah is the place for you. SFW up there would be right up your alley. But here in az we prefer not to give the rich guy an advantage over the common man.

[couesmagnet]

There's always some new excuse to pry into the cookie jar/ kitty. And somehow the fix is always magically set up to be done by the elite or wealthy. Notice how's there almost never a way the common man can help the situation. Only the rich somehow can help?? Superman to the rescue always?? I don't buy it one single bit. Let the common man and the rich share the burden and a level playing field with that combination. Rich guys can throw all the money they want at raffle tickets. And so can the common man in bulk numbers.

Then in five years if they become auction tags only , holy smokes Mary Theres a new battle to fight and we need to double the rich man tags to fight the new battle. Never ending scare tactics till half the premium tags are at auction for every unit and az becomes a glorified New Mexico on steroids.

It's wonderful that there's several rich guys willing to pick up the slack , but I say thanks but no thanks. Everyone can share in the bill not just the rich and if they have to give more raffle tags to equal what the auction tags would have generated then so be it.

I wonder if there was an organization that set up donations for the money they need before they made a decision how that could help in lowering the amount of tags needed designated for raffle or auction. Kimda test the waters on how serious your average Hunter is about donating x amount of money towards a fund set up specifically for said fights.

[couesmagnet]

Don't let the rich guys tell you that they have the only way to fix this problem. They will use all kinds of elaborate excuses and smoke and mirror shows to get what they want and make sure they benefit only, or at least the most. . There's a reason why it's always a rich mans fix only proposed to us all for the problem that's told and sold to you. Things can be cleverly disguised to soften ones keyster. Just let us rich guys take care of this problem. We have it all under control. And you average guys can't help really, we got it all under control here.

[Delw]

Delbert you do not know what you are talking about. Can we please root this in reality and try to come up with a solution?

You sure about that

 

the answer to the solution is NO. give them an inch they take a mile.

so Request Denied would work just fine.

 

and for you guys that are going for this crap I find it funny, cause you whine bitch and moan when G&F give some tags to kids or someone suggests that more tags should be avail for kids( which as many people said is our future) but yet open to this.

[elkaholic]

few tags don't make me laugh!

 

this the same song and dance as before from the same people who tried to "STEAL" our governors tag last time to fund and expo and pad their pockets and give rich boys all the premium hunts and kill the premium animals anytime of yr. all yr long.

 

they weren't happy with one or 2 tags they wanted hundreds of every specie, in every unit of the state.They want year round access to the best of everything in Arizona . If you think this agenda has changed, you wrong.

 

they'll say anything - do anything to get something they lost last time.

 

please don't fooled this time around.

 

THEY WON'T BE HAPPY WITH ONE OR 2 TAGS

 

 

If you want Arizona to be the next paid safari land -where these tag grabbers can , buy the best tags and kill the best animals,-- let the rich boys in -- they wlll figure a way to get'm all

 

they have bidding wars now to get these few governors tags. if its a raffle ,most of us might be able to afford a few tickets spend 100 don't think for a minute they haven't figured got ways exploit the system.

 

they got the money to spend and could care less about you or me having a say or a chance at these tags

 

NO NO NO NO NO

 

 

 

[MT_Sourdough]

I've listened to sales jobs my whole life. This is weak sauce. It seems many people are just so easy to round up and herd.

There are so many ways to accomplish the goal, but some folk want to tell us this is the only way. That is usually a clue.

I'm not buying it.

[AZkiller]

I've listened to sales jobs my whole life. This is weak sauce. It seems many people are just so easy to round up and herd.

There are so many ways to accomplish the goal, but some folk want to tell us this is the only way. That is usually a clue.

I'm not buying it.

Does it seem easy? Seems like most of you want to dig in your heels and just say no. I hear no one putting any other ideas out there though. Other than "There's utter ways" If this continues the way our government has we're doomed.

[Saguaro]

MT_Sourdough,

Can you list some of those ways please? You might be able to solve this whole thing.

[Ringer]

Here is an idea- get rid of Pete and Don and SFW and then come back with a more logical proposal that does not require raising 1.5 million dollars a YEAR for some fund for someone to spend on defending against something. This is just the second act in a long running play by SFW to force our prime tags into their control. People here that are listening to the new group are fools. Don Peay is against the American Model and has stated that in the past. He is a politician and represents the wealthy who just can't wait 20 years to hunt Arizona. You spent $250000 on this and claim you got the job done? That might be a retainer for a lobbying firm and just how did they help get rid of HSUS? How did your group stop people from signing the initiative? You didn't. This is just another excuse to take tags. JUST SAY NO.

[AZkiller]

How did the Democrats manage to get you guys to turn on your own? I can't believe all of the class warfare being thrown around here. Any of you employed by a poor man? Other than you self employed such as myself. Who cares how much money they have or how much more they hunt than YOU do. If they are going to ensure our ability to hunt welcome them!

[ThomC]

How did the Democrats manage to get you guys to turn on your own? I can't believe all of the class warfare being thrown around here. Any of you employed by a poor man? Other than you self employed such as myself. Who cares how much money they have or how much more they hunt than YOU do. If they are going to ensure our ability to hunt welcome them!

They are not "my own". They are democrats in sheep's clothing. They are telling you how good it is going to be for you but when they get a foot hold then you will find out the rest of the story. Obama promised you a free phone but all you got was the chunks in the cat litter. be double aware

[idgaf]

How did the Democrats manage to get you guys to turn on your own? I can't believe all of the class warfare being thrown around here. Any of you employed by a poor man? Other than you self employed such as myself. Who cares how much money they have or how much more they hunt than YOU do. If they are going to ensure our ability to hunt welcome them!

Allocating tags for money is a tax. I pay my share in taxes but I would prefer not to pay excessive taxes. Now who is the democrat?

[Flatlander]

 

MT_Sourdough,

Can you list some of those ways please?

 

The burden for these funds can be shared by the industry that it supports and citizens who participate.

 

Here are a few examples:

Gear manufacturers can create a line of products that target raising additional funds dedicated to the cause. The same way that anything in pink raises money for cancer, anything branded this way from any manufacturer contributes dollars to the cause.

 

A raffle of gear, services and properties can be used.

 

Mexico tags can be raffled/auctioned.

 

A dedicated hunter program requiring time/financial support can be established that provides a bonus point.

 

Any or all of the existing organizations could contribute a portion of the funds they already raise specifically to the cause of fighting these issues.

 

Protect and conserve could do the exact same things that AES, ABA, ADA, ADBSS, RMEF, SCI, etc already do (raffles, expo, volunteer service, membership) and dedicate the funds to fighting the good fight.

 

Any or all of the aforementioned organizations could hold an event called EFF the HSUS every year and raise money. It could be an expo similar to ISE except it doesnt suck. Add banquets and dinner and it would raise lots and lots of money.

 

Hold a bow shoot. Rifle shoot. Pellet gun shoot. Turkey shoot.

 

Develop a national hunting and fishing lobby with the participation of national industry, organizations, citizens and partner with wildlife magament organizations.