salt and feed no more in 2009

[NOFX]

Alright, I have been following this thread FOREVER. No law has past yet that I know or have heard of. There is still time(hopefully) to be heard. We can gripe and moan and fight amongst each other about ethics and opinions all day for weeks, months, apparently. All I can say is, "relax" it will all be O.K. I am impartial to long distance rifle shots and archers baiting, Photoing and harvesting trophy deer. I myself have been unsuccessful at any type of hunting other than hard work. I believe that archers who use cameras and bait work just as hard, if not harder than the average rifle hunter. Now, I might express concern to those that abuse the right to bait. Large scale operations designed to domesticate deer for personal profit seems a little bit unethical. However, I wont judge because we all have a right to earn a living or harvest a buck within the laws that are presented.

 

A well trained hunter knows his/hers capabilities. Who is to question that? Answer=PETA, AZGF, activists, rifle hunters/bow hunters. I hate to put the hunters in the mix but it appears that we are divided. How can we stop this? Hopefully a large quantity of hunters (not just bow hunters) voice opinions and nail the chick behind the banner (to the wall)

 

From this thread I have heard that this may pass without hunter opinion. Is this true? If so don't worry, our arrows will still shoot straight and our rifles will be, well, as good as its shooter. This is nothing new, laws have been passed and will continue to pass. Show up at the meetings or stop complaining. Our voices can be just as loud as the naked lady with the banner across her privates.

 

I know that dates and locations have been posted, but when would be the best time to address this issue? Or is it to late? If it is we will live and continue to hunt the way that we love to hunt.

[billrquimby]

"No person shall knowingly use any substance as bait at any time to attract or take bear."

 

Seems to me that all that would be needed to accomplish what some people seem to want would be an amendment to change the word "bear" to "a big game animal" or (even broader) "wildlife."

 

Bill Quimby

[NOFX]

"No person shall knowingly use any substance as bait at any time to attract or take bear."

 

Seems to me that all that would be needed to accomplish what some people seem to want would be an amendment to change the word "bear" to "a big game animal" or (even broader) "wildlife."

 

Bill Quimby

 

It is very unlikely to believe that a "name change" to an existing amendement would accomplish anything. Bear, deer, elk, moose, wolves, coyote and a # of other game species require different levels of management. It depends on the species.

[Outdoor Writer]

so you are saying tony that you can still put salt/cameras out but just not hunt over them the way the law will write?

 

It depends on how the rule is worded. Just as an example, it is still legal to fly chute planes as long as the use is NOT within 48 hrs. of or during an open season. -TONY

[Outdoor Writer]

Seems to me that all that would be needed to accomplish what some people seem to want would be an amendment to change the word "bear" to "a big game animal" or (even broader) "wildlife."

 

Bill Quimby

 

Yup. If they're would be any exceptions, they can be included in the rule. -TONY

[Outdoor Writer]

As a FYI, here are some laws currently on the books that ban baiting for big game.

 

Wyoming:

 

Section 14. Baiting of Big Game Animals Prohibited except by Qualified Persons. Any legally blind person, person confined to a wheelchair or any person hunting with a license issued pursuant to W. S. §23-1-705 (j) may place a bait for big game or take a big game animal by the use of bait.

 

Montana:

 

Prohibited Methods of Taking: It is illegal for anyone to hunt or attempt to hunt any game animal or game bird:

 

• by the aid or with the use of any set gun, jacklight, spotlight or other artificial light, trap, snare, salt lick, or bait, MCA 87-3-101. Baiting shall mean the placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of corn, wheat, or other grain or food sources so as to constitute a lure or attraction.

 

Colorado:

 

21. Use dogs or bait to hunt bears, deer, elk, pronghorn or moose. Bait

means to put, expose, distribute or scatter salt, minerals, grain, animal parts

or other food as an attraction for big game. Scent sticks that smell like food

are illegal for bears.

 

New Mexico:

 

• Take or attempt to take game mammals or game birds over

ground baited with any material or scent distributed there to entice

the animals, except quail or turkey on private land. Scent-masking

agents may be used on one’s person, but not to attract big game.

 

-TONY

[ac guy]

As a FYI, here are some laws currently on the books that ban baiting for big game.

 

Wyoming:

 

Section 14. Baiting of Big Game Animals Prohibited except by Qualified Persons. Any legally blind person, person confined to a wheelchair or any person hunting with a license issued pursuant to W. S. §23-1-705 (j) may place a bait for big game or take a big game animal by the use of bait.

 

-TONY

Legally blind person? Let me know where they're hunting, so I can keep a mile away

[AZcoues_addict]

It depends on how the rule is worded. Just as an example, it is still legal to fly chute planes as long as the use is NOT within 48 hrs. of or during an open season. -TONY

 

If this baiting law passes (which I hope it doesn't), then I at least want those to consider how it is worded, very carefully. Tony's example is excellent, there is an open mountain lion season 3/4 of the year, so chute planes should technically be banned whenever a "season" is open? Huh?

[AZcoues_addict]

Me thinks most folks would interpret it with more common sense, however, realizing that the attractant FROM a mouthcall is a sound and not a substance. Plus, that sound doesn't habituate and alter the natural habits of game over time as bait does. In fact, it often does just opposite. -TONY

 

Well here is another play on "substance", what about scents? It seems most scent-type attractants would be banned? It is not the actual bottle that attracts them, it is the smell not the substance? Are sound and smell so different? They are both physical in my mind. According to my logic, if calls are O.K. then scents should be too as long as they are on your person, and as long as a bottle isn't physically left in the field?

 

Also decoys? I'd have a big argument with you if you can't use decoys. What are decoy manufacturers going to think of this? I know bird hunting is more specific, but how will this apply to big game as an "attractant".

 

My point is just be careful with how you word things that might hang many of your fellow hunters, who have used attractants as hunting tactics for "eons", in your wording. The general intent might be good, but the overall result might not be such.

[Outdoor Writer]

Me thinks most folks would interpret it with more common sense, however, realizing that the attractant FROM a mouthcall is a sound and not a substance. Plus, that sound doesn't habituate and alter the natural habits of game over time as bait does. In fact, it often does just opposite. -TONY

 

Well here is another play on "substance", what about scents? It seems most scent-type attractants would be banned? It is not the actual bottle that attracts them, it is the smell not the substance? Are sound and smell so different? They are both physical in my mind. According to my logic, if calls are O.K. then scents should be too as long as they are on your person, and as long as a bottle isn't physically left in the field?

 

Also decoys? I'd have a big argument with you if you can't use decoys. What are decoy manufacturers going to think of this? I know bird hunting is more specific, but how will this apply to big game as an "attractant".

 

My point is just be careful with how you word things that might hang many of your fellow hunters, who have used attractants as hunting tactics for "eons", in your wording. The general intent might be good, but the overall result might not be such.

 

Where do you guys come with this stuff?

 

Something physical is visible. Can you see an elk bugle -- the sound -- not the bugle or mouthcall?

 

It is the liquid, powder or whatever in the bottle that is physical and is a substance! So if that attracts wildlife and is not EXCEPTED under the rule, it would be banned, just as it is in NM. That means scent drippers, etc. However, as it is in NM, substances on your body to MASK your scent -- not too attract game -- are fine.

 

RE: decoys

 

They do not come under the description of bait or attracting scents. So you can still dress up like a doe. Just be careful during the rut.

 

There are a lot of things hunters did for eons that are now illegal here and elsewhere. For example, it was not too long ago where guides could keep a lion treed overnight so they could call their "hunter" to come kill it. I already mentioned chute planes.

 

And we know baiting bears here is also now illegal, which probably saved the spring season, unlike in Colorado where the antis got an initiative passed outlawing both. By law, that initative is irreversible just as it would be here. In contrast, the bear baiting rule here is just that and can be easily changed back the way it was if G&F chooses to do so. I doubt they ever will because it would make an easy target for the antis, but it is possible. -TONY

[TREESTANDMAN]

Man outdoor writer, you know it all!! Absolute genious!!

[bowhunter4life]

[Outdoor Writer]

Tony's example is excellent, there is an open mountain lion season 3/4 of the year, so chute planes should technically be banned whenever a "season" is open? Huh?

 

The "huh" doesn't apply. See below in bold. -TONY

 

R12-4-319

A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions

apply:

1. “Aircraft” means any contrivance used for flight in

the air or any lighter-than-air contrivance.

2. “Locate” means any act or activity that does not take

or harass wildlife and is directed at locating or finding

wildlife in a hunt area.

B. An individual shall not take or assist in taking wildlife

from or with the aid of aircraft.

C. Except in hunt units with Commission-ordered special

seasons under R12-4-115 and R12-4-120 and hunt units

with seasons only for mountain lion and no other concurrent

big game season, an individual shall not locate or assist

in locating wildlife from or with the aid of an

aircraft in a hunt unit with an open big game season.

This restriction begins 48 hours before the opening of

a big game season in a hunt unit and extends until the

close of the big game season for that hunt unit.

D. An individual who possesses a special big game license

tag for a special season under R12-4-115 or R12-4-120 or

an individual who assists or will assist such a licensee shall

not use an aircraft to locate wildlife beginning 48 hours

before and during a Commission-ordered special season.

E. This Section does not apply to any individual acting

within the scope of official duties as an employee or

authorized agent of the state or the United States to

administer or protect or aid in the administration or protection

of land, water, wildlife, livestock, domesticated

animals, human life, or crops.

[TREESTANDMAN]

Very impressive Tony!!! Did you memorize word for word the hunting regs?

[Outdoor Writer]

Very impressive Tony!!! Did you memorize word for word the hunting regs?

 

No, but I read and keep track of what goes on because I normally write about major rule/law changes quite often, not only for AZ but for all of the Rocky Mt. states. After 45 years of reading rules/laws, I have absorbed most of the older ones and only need to keep up to date on newer ones.

 

In reality, it's a good idea for ALL hunters to be aware of the rules/laws or at least to consult them when questions arise. It could save both money and hunting privileges sometime down the road. -TONY