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Vertical deer dimensions for gap shooting?

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I realize most people shoot compounds and don't think about deer dimensions, but I gap shoot a barebow recurve. What that means for my sight picture is that my arrow (seen in my peripheral vision) hovers a certain distance below or above my intended point of impact. So I am asking if anyone has accurate measurements of a deer's height in inches. My gaps are between 14-18 inches at my effective ranges so I need to know the vertical distances above and below the vitals. I would like those measurements for both coues and muleys since the differ in size. I hate to make rough guesses and misjudge a shot on an animal, doesn't seem responsible. Anyone have any ideas?

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So is your point on range beyond your effective range?  Gap depends on what distance you are shooting at, and accurately guessing it.  My first miss (of many) was due to judging midwest sized deer so I thought the 3x3 coues buck was farther away than he was.  Then you have to worry about those little buggers ducking the arrow.   Or not.  That's been my story hunting them with a recurve the last 3 years!

 

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BTW - I shoot a fixed crawl so my point on is 25 yards, but this year I'm using an SRF sight to force myself into doing a better job picking a spot as I tend to shoot high when I don't.

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Coues are 36" to the top of the back. If you shoot a traditional bow long enough you will know what the flight path of the arrow is and be able to comfortably compensate for it and not look at the arrow in flight.

 Deer don't intentionally duck the arrow. Most only get shot at once in their short lives it is a natural reaction to the sound as they crouch to get more spring to launch themselves away from what they perceive as a possible threat.

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According to the book Deer of the Southwest Coues deer are 32” high at the shoulder (they don't specify sex or age).  Measuring pictures their legs are as long as the chest is deep, so that would be 16”.  They don’t give height measurements for mule deer.  Interestingly average dressed weights for 3.5-5.5 year old Coues bucks is 85#, Mule deer bucks 185#.

New Mexico Game and Fish says this:   An average Coues' white-tailed buck weighs only 80 to 100 pounds and stands only 30 to 32 inches high at the shoulder. In contrast, a Maine white-tailed buck stands 40 inches at the shoulder, while in Texas a buck is about 36 inches at the shoulder. A Coues' white-tailed doe weighs approximately 60 to 80 pounds and stands 24 to 26 inches at the shoulder.

That's downright tiny and explains my issues with range estimation.

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I started out gap shooting but ran into the same issues. I went to 3 under. Now my point on is 32-26,  20 and under I aim at belly line.  Technically it’s still gap shooting but all then gaps are on the animal. At full draw the tip of my fletch is touching the tip of my nose. And I aim with the tip the arrow while looking down it. 

I killed a javelina at 26yards on Saturday with a point on shot

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I think Bass Pro has a full mount Coues, I may go over and measure it. The one time I did have a tape in my pack I measured the Coues I shot, that's where I came up with the 36".

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11 hours ago, oz31p said:

I killed a javelina at 26yards on Saturday with a point on shot

Awesome.  Truth be told a 98% of all trad archers are gap shooting whether we consciously know we are doing it or not.  That's a good point on range, I had to crawl 3/4" down the string to get it to 25 yards, but it really improved my shooting at all ranges.  My anchor is my thumb knuckle in the dent under my earlobe behind the jawbone.  Feathers touch my nose when I shoot no crawl 3 under.   

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10 minutes ago, Speedy said:

  My anchor is my thumb knuckle in the dent under my earlobe behind the jawbone.  Feathers touch my nose when I shoot no crawl 3 under.   

That sounds like my anchor.

I’m shooting an old Ben person 50#@28 540g black eagle vintage 100g brass insert 150g rms single bevel cut throat.  Eagle flight 4 arrow quiver. 516F1EB4-4DF1-4AB6-82F0-4BAA6A15C4E9.thumb.jpeg.82ec42d4fcd50117f2bb2b1ed63e1320.jpeg

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On 1/5/2019 at 3:14 PM, Speedy said:

BTW - I shoot a fixed crawl so my point on is 25 yards, but this year I'm using an SRF sight to force myself into doing a better job picking a spot as I tend to shoot high when I don't.

You are correct that my point on is a little outside my effective range or really my "ethical" range, which for me as of now is under 35 yards. I use a fixed crawl too and estimate my gap initially then let me instinctive subconscious slightly adjust and hold that sight picture until my shot breaks. It helps me stay focused and process oriented under stress. I like to target shoot at much longer distances for a little challenge and fun which is why my point on is farther. I don't like having to stack or hold over a target too high as my accuracy diminishes quickly.

I would guess your fixed crawl is unnecessary with that SRF sight. I almost got one but I wanted to compete in barebow classes so I decided not to but it seems a good tool.

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Based on a 30-32 height, I used some grid lines and rulers found in Paint to estimate a 14" gap (red line) and an 18" gap (yellow line) on a coues deer. I pretty new to hunting coues (hunting in general) but I'm guessing this photo is of an average 3 year old buck, maybe someone with more experience in judging these animals could comment. For practical purposes, it's about 12" from a heart shot to his knee joint.

2.PNG

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The lower point of the red and yellow line are your aiming points correct. If so that’s the reason I switched to 3 under. It drove me crazy to have gaps off the animal. Now I would only aim as low as the red line on a very close shot like 10-12yards. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, oz31p said:

The lower point of the red and yellow line are your aiming points correct. If so that’s the reason I switched to 3 under. It drove me crazy to have gaps off the animal. Now I would only aim as low as the red line on a very close shot like 10-12yards.  

 

 

I have not been able to achieve a small gap with three under. That's why I had to crawl down the string to change my launch angle. I had a set up last year that put me at a 25 yard point on but it took some tiller adjustment to get good arrow flight. An 18" maximum gap for me is pretty doable. The yellow line I drew is if I'm really up close but the smaller 14" gap is at 20 yards. I don't know how your point on is 26 yards shooting just three under....do tell. I would guess you're shooting full length 31-32" arrows and have a fairly high anchor point right? That is definitely a forgiving sight picture under 30 yards.

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