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ATTENTION UNIT 23 LOVERS!

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2 hours ago, AZDirtyTaco said:

I feel you couldn't be more wrong if you have directed that statement toward me. If I were to take pictures and share them the next time I'm out in any of the wilderness areas I frequent, you wouldn't be able to hold a candle to that statement. Believe me, you don't want that if you are an advocate for cattle on public land... My best guess is you either don't spend time in the backcountry (>1,000yds from the 4x4), are affiliated with the industry, or have your drinkin goggles on as it relates to this conversation. Fact of the matter is that your attitude is what will hands-down lose this fight to maintain our rights as hunters and unfortunately there are many with similar attitudes that don't know how to practice 'leave no trace' ethics and prefer to throw every can of Copenhagen, beer can and bottle in the fire pits that they leave behind. Far too many of these types in the old guard hunting culture. Say what you will about those infamous organizations everyone loves to hate, but they are FAR better at caring for the land than the average hunter. Feel free to take aim - READY GO!!!  Lol

There isn't anything hippie or Cali about protecting the environment and preserving what we still have for future generations. It's about living responsibly and sharing the resources we all enjoy.

Pawn.

im not saying all cowboys are moral and upright.  I’m say you’re fighting for the cause that will kill you.

 

remember when the Sierra club sued the Arizona sheep associated for filling water catchments during a drought?  It’s because they love wildlife so much, of course.

you're fighting for the enemy.

its already been proven in this thread how much the bar x has done for wildlife, to the point where they received awards.

ranching and logging have done this state nothing but good, and the Sierra club attitude has done nothing but bad, both for wildlife and the forest itself.

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1 hour ago, HuntHarder said:

Bojangles has it all figured out..  No more free thinking allowed.  Whatever he says is clearly the best option.

Lol.  I do need to find something else to do.

But you got something good to say, and I am all ears.  

While I truly do understand the complaint against certain ranches, and no doubt there are a few violators out there, who care for nothing but their bank account....

at the end of the day,  all I’m saying is the people who are against cattle, are also against hunting.  

And they won’t stop at cattle.  

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Dont blame the rancher for cattle in wilderness areas, its not there fault alot of the time.

you have miles of fences and you have dumbass hunters, hikers and ATVers leaving f'n gates open, tearing down fences so they can get thier vehicle through etc etc. plus the fence that gets broke by a tree or elk or just old. back in the 80's we never saw a cow in pine mountain wilderness area. in the 90's it was becoming more common place as well as the traffic, late 90s atvs dirbikes even fullsize vehicles were all over in the wilderness you could follow a two tract where someone cut down the fence. we quite going back there in the early 2000s because it was like a freeway.

 

Bojangles is right on the money with ranchers and Loggers, they done alot of good.  very few big fires when we had logging around not so much anymore.

 

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Not to be politically correct, I am amazed at how many so called Sportsmen commenting here are so ill informed and uninformed. It’s comments like are posted here, that some Permittees and landowners are reluctant to allow access to Sportsmen. I would suggest you turn off the TV / computer and actually get out on a conservation project. You’ll see ranchers, AZGFD, wildlife conservation groups and the USFS, all working together for Arizona’s wildlife. You’ll see folks who are actually making difference for our drought stricken wildlife. I find it ironic that some comments here badmouthing AZGFD, USFS, Ranchers, etc. and then expect to have unabated access. 

Arizona Mule Deer has only two requirements for any allotment we supply materials and volunteer labor on, they must leave all waters on year round for wildlife and access for Sportsmen. That simple. Many of these comments are exactly the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. I am the current Vice Chairman on the AZGFD - Landowner, Lessee, Sportsmans Relationship Committee. Our committee works with both Sportsmen and Ranchers to encourage access and help solve vandalism problems that many ranches face. Many of these ranches have had their water storage tanks shot, fences cut, pipelines cut, solar panels stolen, livestock shot, UTV damage, drinkers vandalized, etc., yet they still allow Sportsmen access. Amazing huh. Most know how many of the ranches in Yavapai and Coconino counties have shut off access to Sportsmen or charge a hefty fee to hunt there. Our committee is working hard to resolve these problems and hopefully stop any more ranches from closing down access. 

I hear comments here saying “my hunting area is not like it used to be or I used to see way more deer back in the day”. Fact is that bringing Mule Deer back to their historical numbers is going to take a concerted effort by Sportsmen, Ranchers, Private Businesses and Governmental Agencies. It’s not going to happen without your help, get involved with habitat improvement projects, help with project fundraising, join a Sportsmans advisory committee or attend meetings with various wildlife groups. It’s easy to moan and groan about the issues affecting Sportsmen and our precious wildlife but if you “don’t have a dog in the fight”, your comments lose credibility. I’d better leave it at that, our Board of Directors is probably going to have me hung for my response here. 

Jim Lawrence - AMDO

 

 

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20 hours ago, bojangles said:

Pawn.

im not saying all cowboys are moral and upright.  I’m say you’re fighting for the cause that will kill you.

 

remember when the Sierra club sued the Arizona sheep associated for filling water catchments during a drought?  It’s because they love wildlife so much, of course.

you're fighting for the enemy.

its already been proven in this thread how much the bar x has done for wildlife, to the point where they received awards.

ranching and logging have done this state nothing but good, and the Sierra club attitude has done nothing but bad, both for wildlife and the forest itself.

I'll pass on the tit for tat petty name calling. Says a lot about who you are and it is very consistent with your point of view. Well played Sir.

To be clear, and since you've either missed or not read my initial post on this thread: Bar X is NOT the ranch that I take issue with. Far from it based on what I've read here. Bar X is the exception and not the rule is my point.

Now carry on with your denial about what is truly happening in our wildernesses and closed-minded statements. 

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15 hours ago, Arizona Mule Deer Org said:

Not to be politically correct, I am amazed at how many so called Sportsmen commenting here are so ill informed and uninformed. It’s comments like are posted here, that some Permittees and landowners are reluctant to allow access to Sportsmen. I would suggest you turn off the TV / computer and actually get out on a conservation project. You’ll see ranchers, AZGFD, wildlife conservation groups and the USFS, all working together for Arizona’s wildlife. You’ll see folks who are actually making difference for our drought stricken wildlife. I find it ironic that some comments here badmouthing AZGFD, USFS, Ranchers, etc. and then expect to have unabated access. 

Arizona Mule Deer has only two requirements for any allotment we supply materials and volunteer labor on, they must leave all waters on year round for wildlife and access for Sportsmen. That simple. Many of these comments are exactly the opposite of what we are trying to accomplish. I am the current Vice Chairman on the AZGFD - Landowner, Lessee, Sportsmans Relationship Committee. Our committee works with both Sportsmen and Ranchers to encourage access and help solve vandalism problems that many ranches face. Many of these ranches have had their water storage tanks shot, fences cut, pipelines cut, solar panels stolen, livestock shot, UTV damage, drinkers vandalized, etc., yet they still allow Sportsmen access. Amazing huh. Most know how many of the ranches in Yavapai and Coconino counties have shut off access to Sportsmen or charge a hefty fee to hunt there. Our committee is working hard to resolve these problems and hopefully stop any more ranches from closing down access. 

I hear comments here saying “my hunting area is not like it used to be or I used to see way more deer back in the day”. Fact is that bringing Mule Deer back to their historical numbers is going to take a concerted effort by Sportsmen, Ranchers, Private Businesses and Governmental Agencies. It’s not going to happen without your help, get involved with habitat improvement projects, help with project fundraising, join a Sportsmans advisory committee or attend meetings with various wildlife groups. It’s easy to moan and groan about the issues affecting Sportsmen and our precious wildlife but if you “don’t have a dog in the fight”, your comments lose credibility. I’d better leave it at that, our Board of Directors is probably going to have me hung for my response here. 

Jim Lawrence - AMDO

 

 

I appreciate your organization and all that contribute do to collaborate on all of the important projects. You've certainly pointed out a few and deserve full credit. It does not, however, change the reality of what is truly happening out there and the fact that there are more ranchers breaking those rules and agreements that were so hard to reach.

If you've spent time in any of the wildernesses that have been mentioned here and have nothing but generic responses in defense...  I'm sorry, but that is a tell to me that there's more to your partnerships than what meets the eye. These are the hard truths the outside world are seeing and maybe why it's so dang easy for the anti's to gain so much traction in the court of public opinion. Be offended all you want and aim your defenses at me, but I am just the dude that will say it.

Edit: You can throw in the obligatory teardown by calling those that disagree with your POV "so called sportsman", and I'll again refrain from the tit for tat. I've never related to that title and you can have it to yourself. I consider myself more of an "outdoorsman" anwho... 

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