Big Tub Report post Posted October 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, BOHNTR said: For this section, the legal definition of an 'occupied dwelling' is, in fact, a barn or shed whether it is occupied or not. Many states have the exact same statute. You need to quote book, chapter and verse on this. There is no exposition within Title 17 or A.R.S. 17-309 as to the definition of occupied that I could find. The regs are where you find the explanation of the dwelling "should be considered occupied." Note the use of the word "should" which has great significance. I know in military specifications, should means "you ought to" but not that "you have to." For "have to" situations, the word used is "shall." I think you may have an out here. It may be worth your while to fight this one and go back and determine if that barn was occupied. If someone complained that you were shooting next to their house, you are hosed. But if the Wildlife Manager just happened to catch you near a barn, as Lance pointed out, that if the barn was not occupied, there was no violation. What a pain to prove that. It undoubtedly would be easier to pay the fine and "let us learn from this." Is it worth the hassle? That is for you to decide. However, it is a kick to see how so many folks add to the actual written law and make it worse than it really is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhunter42 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 It's a class 1 misdemeanor. Have a pretrial at the end of this month, now it's going to interfere with my deer hunt . Just seems a bit excessive in my opinion. I just wanted to pay the fine on my initial court date but judge said that this is how it goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted October 5, 2019 "Occupied" doesn't mean a HUMAN -- or anything else such as a horse or a cow in a barn -- has to be in it at the time. Instead, it means the "whatever" is being used. Example: Only 10 stores in the mall are occupied right now. The others do not have tenants yet. Those ten stores are still occupied even when they're closed at night. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOHNTR Report post Posted October 5, 2019 It’s been tried before......and upheld by the courts. A barn or shed, occupied or unoccupied, still falls within the 1/4 mile shooting statute. It was where I enforced the law as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MT_Sourdough Report post Posted October 5, 2019 What? Didn't have your lawyer with you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhunter42 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, MT_Sourdough said: What? Didn't have your lawyer with you? I honestly did not think that I needed a lawyer to begin with, my mistake. At that point I was not aware it was a class 1 untill I got the paperwork saying so. Now I know differently Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MT_Sourdough Report post Posted October 5, 2019 Just trying for some humor, Sorry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted October 5, 2019 from Google of course: I doubt it would be anywhere near the max ... but the law is written by lawyers, for lawyers to employ more lawyers! In Arizona, there are 3 types of misdemeanor classifications, including: Class 1 misdemeanor- A class 1 misdemeanor is the most serious misdemeanor offense and is punishable by up to 6 months in jail, 3 years of probation (5 years maximum probation for DUI offenses) and a $2,500 fine plus surcharges. You may want to see a lawyer and go back and determine if the building was indeed occupied, used, lived in, or whatever. Perhaps it was vacant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhunter42 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, MT_Sourdough said: Just trying for some humor, Sorry No problem, a good scare is what I needed lol. Has to be someone on here that made the same bonehead like me. My court pretrial is not till the 30th. I still don't think it's a huge deal per say compared to other violations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhunter42 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Big Tub said: from Google of course: I doubt it would be anywhere near the max ... but the law is written by lawyers, for lawyers to employ more lawyers! In Arizona, there are 3 types of misdemeanor classifications, including: Class 1 misdemeanor- A class 1 misdemeanor is the most serious misdemeanor offense and is punishable by up to 6 months in jail, 3 years of probation (5 years maximum probation for DUI offenses) and a $2,500 fine plus surcharges. You may want to see a lawyer and go back and determine if the building was indeed occupied, used, lived in, or whatever. Perhaps it was vacant? But this being my first ever offense, mine will be drastically less overall. I might get a lawyer so it's not on my record for any reason, any good lawyers on here? Trying to cover all my bases before the pretrial. It was not vacant, farm barn . At first the agfd guy just checked our license and stuff. He continued to let us shoot until he got his range finder out and seen that it was closer than we all thought. He even thought it was beyond the 1/4 mile at one point or he would of had us stop shooting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOHNTR Report post Posted October 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, Big Tub said: from Google of course: I doubt it would be anywhere near the max ... but the law is written by lawyers, for lawyers to employ more lawyers! In Arizona, there are 3 types of misdemeanor classifications, including: Class 1 misdemeanor- A class 1 misdemeanor is the most serious misdemeanor offense and is punishable by up to 6 months in jail, 3 years of probation (5 years maximum probation for DUI offenses) and a $2,500 fine plus surcharges. You may want to see a lawyer and go back and determine if the building was indeed occupied, used, lived in, or whatever. Perhaps it was vacant? Doesn’t matter if the barn was occupied (vacant) or not.....it’s still a violation according to the statute and case law. I really don’t like the statute set at 1/4 mile (440 yards)......that’s a long way when you really think about it. Many states have a 150 yard rule, which seem more appropriate, IMO. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Tub Report post Posted October 5, 2019 Doesn’t matter if the barn was occupied (vacant) or not.....it’s still a violation according to the statute and case law. ... book chapter and verse -- that is not what it says -- "occupied" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azbirdhunter88 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, BOHNTR said: Doesn’t matter if the barn was occupied (vacant) or not.....it’s still a violation according to the statute and case law. I really don’t like the statute set at 1/4 mile (440 yards)......that’s a long way when you really think about it. Many states have a 150 yard rule, which seem more appropriate, IMO. When you have livestock, kid hunters, and own the property you will think different. I own property here as well as other states and the most pain in the butt thing is people hunting on or shooting towards the properties. If your not sure if it’s a 1/4 mile then keep going farther. You got a well deserved ticket. People hunt on the fence line of my property and don’t realize my barn is within a 1/4 mile of it even though they aren’t on private property. Game and Fish loves them and I’ll continue calling them in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azhunter42 Report post Posted October 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, azbirdhunter88 said: When you have livestock, kid hunters, and own the property you will think different. I own property here as well as other states and the most pain in the butt thing is people hunting on or shooting towards the properties. If your not sure if it’s a 1/4 mile then keep going farther. You got a well deserved ticket. People hunt on the fence line of my property and don’t realize my barn is within a 1/4 mile of it even though they aren’t on private property. Game and Fish loves them and I’ll continue calling them in. I'm not disputing the charge at all, my bad and I accept what I did was wrong . My question is who has been thru the same thing and there outcome Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Delw Report post Posted October 5, 2019 remember that is maxicmum you wont see jail time you wont see maximum fees, you will just pay your ticket and be done. if you choose to fight it however it will go on as long as you want. Wife freaked out when I got a class one for having a fun little tourny on pleasant. but There was no rules broken and the ticket was kinda bogus for when it was written. maricopa county prosecuter didnt even want to to get the ticket, but the bitch at the recreation dept wanted the maximum. after 3 months of me fighting it mainly to find the rule I wasnt going to give up until they proved that I did something wrong. Judge asked me what I wanted as punishment. I said community service but I get to pick. He said fair enough 5 hours, I said no not enough how about 40 hours. he cut it to like 10. I told him I already had 20-30 hours with G&F since this courtcase was going on. He laughed gave me 5 more hours said get out of here. they ended up getting me on Organized Gambling at a park as that was the only thing closetst they could find. Dont sweat it you basically got a parking ticket you will be fine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
