NewlyMinted Report post Posted February 4, 2020 12 hours ago, BusterAZ said: While predation by wolves cannot be discounted, it is not the main factor that caused this population decline. Wolves were reintroduced in 1995 and that handful didn’t make substantial kills to this herd for several years. The major environmental factors that caused the elk herd decline was the succession of meadows into forest and harsh winters. The 1996-97 decline was the result of winter kill and not the dozen wolves that were reintroduced. This data is cherry picked to provide a false narrative. Furthermore, the wolf population in this area as been reduced for several years without any elk population rebound. The data points to habitat as the main culprit. Elk don’t have nearly as many food sources in a mature forest as meadow areas. The previously large herds in this region can be attributed to post burn ecosystem that had more food sources for the elk. Essentially, the forest matured and preferred food sources (grasses, shrubs, etc) were choked out by the forest canopy. Below is a link explaining the severity of these historic fires, which kickstarted the secondary succession in these region. https://foresthistory.org/research-explore/us-forest-service-history/policy-and-law/fire-u-s-forest-service/famous-fires/the-1910-fires/ I don't have a dog in this fight, but read p25 onwards of this: https://collaboration.idfg.idaho.gov/WildlifeTechnicalReports/Elk Statewide FY2019.pdf Harsh winter made the big hit, but wolves taking young Elk are clearly cited as the reason recovery is not faster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 4, 2020 11 hours ago, Flatlander said: Uhoh. You presented science?! The people will have none of this. I wonder if the scientists studying this livelihoods depends on the results of their findings 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim Report post Posted February 4, 2020 So what about all the first hand on the ground information from the hunters and ranchers that live the wolf nightmare every day. Because they are not scientists their information is not credible. There might have been some bad winters but traditionally there has always been winter kill and the herds recovered just fine. Now that wolve population is where it's at they are not recovering as in the past. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted February 4, 2020 Sorry Buster but I see your followup post as "selective reading", or "selective data mining", supporting your personal viewpoint. Reminds me of our political environment. My comments are derived from what I personally witness in the field, and feedback from rural people that are most knowledgeable....... because they are affected on a daily basis by this experiment. Additionally, I have talked to numerous game and fish managers from the northern states at RMEF national convention booths. They all claim that their elk and moose populations have been devastated by the wolf reintroduction programs in their respective states. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, trphyhntr said: I wonder if the scientists studying this livelihoods depends on the results of their findings Lol the libtards science counting system is very evident today in Iowa. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trphyhntr Report post Posted February 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, ThomC said: Lol the libtards science counting system is very evident today in Iowa. DNC trying to screw Bernie again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusterAZ Report post Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Alpinebullwinkle said: Sorry Buster but I see your followup post as "selective reading", or "selective data mining", supporting your personal viewpoint. Reminds me of our political environment. My comments are derived from what I personally witness in the field, and feedback from rural people that are most knowledgeable....... because they are affected on a daily basis by this experiment. Additionally, I have talked to numerous game and fish managers from the northern states at RMEF national convention booths. They all claim that their elk and moose populations have been devastated by the wolf reintroduction programs in their respective states. Selective data mining was the chart fine sir! Here is a RMEF statement explaining the situation: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted February 4, 2020 I know for a fact that RMEF endured a negative impact on their overall membership due to their early support for the wolf re-introductions, and then trying to ride the middle of the fence to soften the impact. Having acknowledged that hard to swallow fact, I still remain a +30 year member of the RMEF organization as well as many other conservation organizations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flatlander Report post Posted February 4, 2020 Told ya. Most hunters only believe what they want. Truth is wolves kill elk. Lots of them. They need to be managed. But they are not responsible for every elk decline in the last two decades. Almost never discussed is that the herd numbers in the mid 90’s were over carrying capacity and needed some reduction. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusterAZ Report post Posted February 4, 2020 People that argue with Science are only fooling themselves. Ecology is a universal science and has been fact checked on various continents and nothing like politics in this country. Capitalists paid off politicians to push phony science and/or discredit valid scientific studies in favor of business profits. A concept like Tropic Cascade or the importance of apex predators in ecological terms are studied on various populations and have been reproduced with similar results. Almost all elk herds in the lower 48 are managed at population levels in favor of sport hunting instead of numbers that are lower and healthier for the ecosystem as a whole. This is the NA model of game management in a nutshell shell- create reliable populations that can sustain annual harvests by humans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted February 5, 2020 People that argue with Science are only fooling theirselves. False as is your spelling Ecology is a universal science and has been fact checked on various continents and nothing like politics in this country. False again Next sentence is false In fact every sentence is false You have confused opinion with facts. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BusterAZ Report post Posted February 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, ThomC said: People that argue with Science are only fooling theirselves. False as is your spelling Ecology is a universal science and has been fact checked on various continents and nothing like politics in this country. False again Next sentence is false In fact every sentence is false You have confused opinion with facts. Thanks for the spelling check for themselves 😩 Do you have any real evidence that refutes those claims? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roninflag Report post Posted February 5, 2020 how is selling tags and harvesting elk in dwindling population helping? dumb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
