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I've helped build many catchments on public land and zero of them had anything to do with a rancher.  These bills are ridiculous!

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59 minutes ago, stillatmaxpoints said:

Obviously you know little about how grazing leases are administered both on state and federal lands, such as state trust lands they are for 10 years not yearly. 

Where does it say all water catchments built by ranchers on all public land are private? Ranchers are probably in the top three for thorns in hunters side!

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24 minutes ago, Explorer said:

Where does it say all water catchments built by ranchers on all public land are private? Ranchers are probably in the top three for thorns in hunters side!

if you look back at my post, i said most, not all. On state trust lands it is all if built by the ranch or rancher, on federal lands i know ranchers that own there stock tanks and permanent improvements, and some do not, could have to do with water rights filings etc, if you really want to know just do your research on federal lands, i have never owned nor would i own a federal grazing permit. 

Something to consider, if it had not been for ranchers developing waters from the late 1800's until present day, you would have a lot less game to hunt to in this arid state, a good example is the coconino plateau, Boquiallas ranch and Babbitt ranches, unit 9 and 10 

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14 minutes ago, stillatmaxpoints said:

if you look back at my post, i said most, not all. On state trust lands it is all if built by the ranch or rancher, on federal lands i know ranchers that own there stock tanks and permanent improvements, and some do not, could have to do with water rights filings etc, if you really want to know just do your research on federal lands, i have never owned nor would i own a federal grazing permit. 

Something to consider, if it had not been for ranchers developing waters from the late 1800's until present day, you would have a lot less game to hunt to in this arid state, a good example is the coconino plateau, Boquiallas ranch and Babbitt ranches, unit 9 and 10 

I don’t think anyone is arguing what ranches have done for wildlife as far as water goes. Most water holes in this state were put in for cattle.

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Most ma & pa ranches are long gone, especially in this state.  I lived and worked on ranches growing up and I did lots of improvement to water sources and fences and such.  Never was their a concept of ownership, but value is recognized by the work done and which usually covers the cost of range lease.  That was 30 to 40 years ago in Western Montana so things are quite a bit different these days and here in AZ.

  Old 19th century water rights in the west are archaic and need to be re-visioned. 

 Most any ranch that have changed hands over the last 50 plus years are going to millionaires who do not make money from the ranch.  In many cases, they are held by holding companies of some sort and in the end are a tax right-off.  

The money these "new" ranch owners bring to the table make them formidable.  I wish no ill will to the old family ranchers, but I have very little appreciation for the fat cat ownership that takes advantage of our romanticism about the way things once were. 

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The only restriction I would like to see is driving any vehicle within a hundred yards of water unless retrieving game. Nothing worse than a side by side or quad looping a water hole during a hunt.

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9 hours ago, stillatmaxpoints said:

There are some good points in the two bills. From a business point of view from a rancher not having someone setting right on your stock tank is a good thing, cattle will not come to water as easily as they normally do, some distance would be a good thing.

Having a trail camera season is a good thing, Nevada did that very thing, that way use of trail cameras was not outlawed completely, a season would bring back some meaning to the fair chase concept, which is no longer in effect on the Arizona strip, where there are thousands of trail cameras out there year round, the really big bucks don't have much of a chance there, other units are getting to be the same way, especially in units with very little natural live waters in them

My experience is that cattle not only come to the water hole  but don't leave the water hole when I'm at a water hole even after one gets pelted in the head with a rock. I didn't throw the rock though in case you were wondering.

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40 minutes ago, Explorer said:

The only restriction I would like to see is driving any vehicle within a hundred yards of water unless retrieving game. Nothing worse than a side by side or quad looping a water hole during a hunt.

Yes but so many are right next to a road.

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57 minutes ago, Explorer said:

The only restriction I would like to see is driving any vehicle within a hundred yards of water unless retrieving game. Nothing worse than a side by side or quad looping a water hole during a hunt.

How would anyone drive anywhere there’s water holes all over heck and nobody knows where every single one is. 

 

The restriction I would like to see is no more worthless unenforceable laws. 

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2 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

How would anyone drive anywhere there’s water holes all over heck and nobody knows where every single one is. 

 

The restriction I would like to see is no more worthless unenforceable laws. 

Lots of roads skirt just feet from water holes, drive a mile and the same at the next one! It goes on and on. I agree with your new proposed restriction! And I’d like to add, enforce existing laws before adding more!!

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When I saw these bills I was surprised by the one dealing with hunting near waterholes, and don’t see how it would be enforced. The other bill dealing with a season on trail cams is the one I figured may push through. Stanley, did your contact mention this one in your conversation?

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Word on the street is that Thorpe has pulled the Bills from consideration.  My real question is who put him up to this.  Its good to know your enemy.  Something to think about before the election in November, especially if he is your Representative.  We don't need this California RINO doing business in the State Capital if you ask me.

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1 hour ago, Heat said:

Word on the street is that Thorpe has pulled the Bills from consideration.  My real question is who put him up to this.  Its good to know your enemy.  Something to think about before the election in November, especially if he is your Representative.  We don't need this California RINO doing business in the State Capital if you ask me.

One of the guys at the poker game  ....... lol

 

Not sure who has this reps ear but he appears to have a need to introduce "enviromental" bills.  Where exactly is his district?

 

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17 minutes ago, Swivelhead said:

One of the guys at the poker game  ....... lol

 

Not sure who has this reps ear but he appears to have a need to introduce "enviromental" bills.  Where exactly is his district?

 

Scottsdale area and north.

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35 minutes ago, Swivelhead said:

One of the guys at the poker game  ....... lol

 

Not sure who has this reps ear but he appears to have a need to introduce "enviromental" bills.  Where exactly is his district?

 

 

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