18,000 new elk apps

[zackcarp]

6 minutes ago, sambojenkins said:

I just checked the website and it says that he  non-resident resident cap is set at 10%

For the draw hunts yes.

[JVS]

3 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

Doesn’t matter, it’s not worth arguing over. 
 

cash is king/ end thread 

Sad but true. Sooo, my economics class taught me when supply is low and demand is high😏....looks like its time to jack the out of state prices if cash is king. I understand that the supply is not low on the OTC tags, but it should be. This hunting craze is creating a huge demand...and the supply will/should respond. These animals are not going to magically and exponentially reproduce every year we increase tag sales.

[Flatlander]

1 minute ago, zackcarp said:

For the draw hunts yes.

Yes, but only for antlered elk and deer, antelope, bighorn and buffalo.

Cow elk, any elk, javelina, juniors hunts are all equal odds.

[TylerDurden]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:04 PM, Ohthatguy said:

170,000 people, hunting, money and animals...  Recipe for whining and complaining by a select few.  

Who has said there has been a delay in the draw?   If they wait 2 weeks to ding cards and sort out that portion of it, so what?

Has it been delayed?  Maybe...  

 

If they wait two weeks from the deadline to update credit card info until they hit cards then that is a major departure from the past practices of AZGFD.  The email sent Friday said that they are underway in processing the applications.  Usually they draw the day after the deadline to update cards.  That's all I'm saying.

[1uofacat]

2 hours ago, 654321 said:

What makes you think there is anything wrong with the draw system. For the 500 millionth time the draw and portals are two totally separate things. The portals right now are what is messed up and again for the 500 millionth time YOU DONT NEED A PORTAL ACCOUNT TO PUT IN FOR THE DRAW, so the draw for all you know will run exactly like it has run flawlessly for years. Once again there has been no delay until they miss the April 2nd deadline to mail out tags. (Is that a nice enough way of putting it?)

Member 654321... exactly where did I say in the post you reacted to this had anything to do with portal accounts?  

 

What I said was, "Delays like this, & this was clearly a delay, may imply to some the entire draw system may be untrustworthy, or worse."  I'll also add the simple fact that the G&F either can't or won't clearly say what the issues were/are does not instill confidence.  I personally don't know the draw system will run "flawlessly" whenever they finally run the draw, nor do I know that the draw has run flawlessly for years.  Exactly how is it you know?  I have had questions and concerns in the past draws that were never answered, but I've moved on.  

 

Before anyone reacts with, "They don't owe us answers", or some other reasonable facsimile of this type of response, the G&F works for us and as a State Agency the AZ public records laws do apply (FOIA is for federal agencies, but AZ has similar laws).  Regardless, how hard is it to just be honest?  If there's an issue, admit it, fix it, and move on.  This whole "secrecy" thing is what causes most doubt as answers given so far (some who posted here as well as what's on their website) are conflicting and/or don't add up, at least to me they don't.

 

Lastly, and perhaps least important, as far as being "late", this does make a difference to some in that other state's application deadlines are fast approaching (I believe NM's deadline is this week).  While the G&F hasn't missed the April 2nd deadline yet (and not expected to), it certainly would have been helpful to see the draw occur as expected.  

 

 

as far as "nice enough way of putting it"...  there was no need to SHOUT, especially since your shouting has nothing to do with what I actually posted

[TylerDurden]

On 2/27/2021 at 2:43 PM, 654321 said:

No where in the regulations has the AZGFD said the draw will take place the morning after the CC update, the only thing they’ve ever printed is when the tags will be mailed out so again no delay yet.

Yes I understand that.  Not claiming AZGFD has violating the regs.  Only pointing out the fact that they have hit cards the day after the deadline to update cards and it is quite obvious they are delayed in that standard process this year.

[TylerDurden]

On 2/27/2021 at 6:47 PM, zackcarp said:

This guy is one.

I'm not sure how pointing out that what has happened in years past (like hitting cards the day after the deadline to update cards) vs. what is happening this year (not hitting cards the day after the deadline to update cards) makes one a liberal.

[TylerDurden]

9 minutes ago, 1uofacat said:

Member 654321... exactly where did I say in the post you reacted to this had anything to do with portal accounts?  

 

What I said was, "Delays like this, & this was clearly a delay, may imply to some the entire draw system may be untrustworthy, or worse."  I'll also add the simple fact that the G&F either can't or won't clearly say what the issues were/are does not instill confidence.  I personally don't know the draw system will run "flawlessly" whenever they finally run the draw, nor do I know that the draw has run flawlessly for years.  Exactly how is it you know?  I have had questions and concerns in the past draws that were never answered, but I've moved on.  

 

Before anyone reacts with, "They don't owe us answers", or some other reasonable facsimile of this type of response, the G&F works for us and as a State Agency the AZ public records laws do apply (FOIA is for federal agencies, but AZ has similar laws).  Regardless, how hard is it to just be honest?  If there's an issue, admit it, fix it, and move on.  This whole "secrecy" thing is what causes most doubt as answers given so far (some who posted here as well as what's on their website) are conflicting and/or don't add up, at least to me they don't.

 

Lastly, and perhaps least important, as far as being "late", this does make a difference to some in that other state's application deadlines are fast approaching (I believe NM's deadline is this week).  While the G&F hasn't missed the April 2nd deadline yet (and not expected to), it certainly would have been helpful to see the draw occur as expected.  

 

 

as far as "nice enough way of putting it"...  there was no need to SHOUT, especially since your shouting has nothing to do with what I actually posted

Yes 1uofacat - this is 100% on the money.  Clearly AZGFD is having issues this time around.  We can debate on this Forum all day long as to why they are having issues or what exactly the issues are.  But anyone arguing this is normal or nothing is wrong has their head buried in the sand.  And the longer this goes on without a better explanation than simply they are "processing the draw" and have "18,000 additional applications" the more people are going to be concerned.

[ThomC]

Dont worry about the G&F apologists, they have a vested interest.  Some where along the line their bread is getting buttered.  And speaking of bread OTC non res money is more better than res OTC money.   The secret draw will never be observed by outsiders, sorta like the last vote.😰

[Flatlander]

Here is the qty of resident and NR otc archery deer tags for those who haven’t seen it recently. (If viewing from phone turn sideways)

                                2018                                2019                                2020

Dealer sales- RES      20,832                             19,890                             21,125

Dept sales-    RES        4,807                               5,120                                5,371

 

Dealer Sales-NRS        1,789                               2,188                               2,591

Dept sales-    NRS           313                                  395                                  502

[trphyhntr]

How many of them were hunting exclusively January, that’s a pretty good chunk of people. 

[wish2hunt]

Numbers really go up every year. Yep something needs to be done.

[AZBIG10]

No matter what happens... I still hate all of my elk choices. Fml

 

[GreyGhost85]

Although the numbers increase in NR vs Resident for 2018-2020 is about the same (+857 res and +991 Non-Res) NR tags are increasing at 10x the rate as RES (32% vs 3.2%). For arguments sake, can we all agree that selling 29,589 OTC deer tags in 2020 WITHOUT any kind of harvest reporting is an issue? How can you issue that amount of tags without having any idea what the impact is? Success rates have to be way higher now than they were when these hunts were designed. People are better at hunting, spend more time in the field, hunt harder and spend way more money on hunting gear now than ever before. All of those things drastically increase your odds of killing animals. The Arizona model has not changed much since probably the late 90's/early 2000's and is built around banking that people will continue to have low success rates. They do not want to have mandatory harvest reporting for the simple fact that they will not be able to sell as many tags because the statistics will show a tremendous jump in harvest numbers. It is a huge predicament for us hunters here. I for one LOVE that I can hunt deer every year in Arizona but at the same time, I do miss the days of strong deer populations, more mature bucks and lower pressure. You can't have your cake and eat it too I guess but sticking your head in the sand when there is an obvious issue doesn't help. 

[AZBIG10]

12 minutes ago, GreyGhost85 said:

Although the numbers increase in NR vs Resident for 2018-2020 is about the same (+857 res and +991 Non-Res) NR tags are increasing at 10x the rate as RES (32% vs 3.2%). For arguments sake, can we all agree that selling 29,589 OTC deer tags in 2020 WITHOUT any kind of harvest reporting is an issue? How can you issue that amount of tags without having any idea what the impact is? Success rates have to be way higher now than they were when these hunts were designed. People are better at hunting, spend more time in the field, hunt harder and spend way more money on hunting gear now than ever before. All of those things drastically increase your odds of killing animals. The Arizona model has not changed much since probably the late 90's/early 2000's and is built around banking that people will continue to have low success rates. They do not want to have mandatory harvest reporting for the simple fact that they will not be able to sell as many tags because the statistics will show a tremendous jump in harvest numbers. It is a huge predicament for us hunters here. I for one LOVE that I can hunt deer every year in Arizona but at the same time, I do miss the days of strong deer populations, more mature bucks and lower pressure. You can't have your cake and eat it too I guess but sticking your head in the sand when there is an obvious issue doesn't help. 

Couldn’t agree more. They are acting as if the resource is infinite. Not the case and needs to be addressed. How can they think it’s ok?