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HuntHike61

Info Desire: AZ G&F Cannot Charge CC Upfront For Tags

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After being slapped with some more knowledge, it appears this is the law that causes the situation in AZ:

44-1703. Credit services organizations; prohibited activities

A credit services organization and its salespersons, agents and representatives who sell or attempt to sell the services of a credit services organization shall not do any of the following:

1. Charge or receive monies or other valuable consideration before full and complete performance of the services the credit services organization has agreed to perform for or on behalf of the buyer, unless the credit services organization, in conformity with section 44-1708, has obtained a surety bond issued by a surety company authorized to do business in this state. If a credit services organization is in compliance with this paragraph, the salesperson, agents and representatives who sell the services of the organization are not required to obtain the surety bond provided for in section 44-1708

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From what I gather, neither the G&F or the credit service organization is too interested in obtaining a surety bond to cover the huge amount of refunded cc transactions.

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This law is bigger than G&F.  If the law is changed it will have an affect on many other things not even related to G&F.  Surprisingly, not all things in life revolve around hunting in Arizona.  I'm still trying to get that through my thick skull.

If people want the law changed then start writing your elected representatives and tell them.  I promise there will people contacting them and pushing back and it has nothing to do with hunting or game and fish.  The law is in place for a reason.

I appreciate HuntHike61 for his due diligence and finding the law.  Now we just have to save it so every time someone brings this up we can copy and paste.

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I can go to any restaurant or store and purchase a gift card to be applied to future goods or services, buy a car wash pass or a gym membership that allows me to use the facilities in the future, I can buy a coupon book to support a high school football team that allows me to get discounts on future purchases. I even have a Ben Avery shooting range card that I can use at the skeet shooting range. Why can’t I buy a “draw card” where funds can be taken from if I draw a tag?

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2 minutes ago, greg.shrum said:

Why can’t I buy a “draw card” where funds can be taken from if I draw a tag?

You can. That's what your $13 application fee covers. 

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I have had it explained like this......you can't be charged for a service not rendered. To get around that they would have to issue everyone a tag and then validate those who draw. I have no idea if there is any truth to this. I never cared enough to try to find out.

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Maybe they could call the entire amount the application fee and charge it all up front and if you're drawn the application fee goes towards the cost of the tag. 

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2 minutes ago, greg.shrum said:

I can go to any restaurant or store and purchase a gift card to be applied to future goods or services, buy a car wash pass or a gym membership that allows me to use the facilities in the future, I can buy a coupon book to support a high school football team that allows me to get discounts on future purchases. I even have a Ben Avery shooting range card that I can use at the skeet shooting range. Why can’t I buy a “draw card” where funds can be taken from if I draw a tag?

Because when you make the purchases you listed, you are getting something of value in return.  All the things you listed have real value after they are purchased even though they may not be used immediately.  When you are applying for a hunt all you are buying is a chance to get something.  The way the laws are now, if game and fish charged everyone up front then they would have to give everyone who applied a tag.

 

 

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Thanks for the info and references...and yeah I could see how any change to that could affect a lot more businesses beyond just the draw. 

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1 hour ago, HuntHike61 said:

After being slapped with some more knowledge, it appears this is the law that causes the situation in AZ:

44-1703. Credit services organizations; prohibited activities

A credit services organization and its salespersons, agents and representatives who sell or attempt to sell the services of a credit services organization shall not do any of the following:

1. Charge or receive monies or other valuable consideration before full and complete performance of the services the credit services organization has agreed to perform for or on behalf of the buyer, unless the credit services organization, in conformity with section 44-1708, has obtained a surety bond issued by a surety company authorized to do business in this state. If a credit services organization is in compliance with this paragraph, the salesperson, agents and representatives who sell the services of the organization are not required to obtain the surety bond provided for in section 44-1708

I don't think AZGFD meets the definition of a "credit services organization"

44-1701. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Buyer" means any natural person who is solicited to purchase or who purchases the services of a credit services organization.

2. "Credit services organization" means a person who, with respect to the extension of credit by others, sells, provides, performs or represents that he can or will sell, provide or perform any of the following services in return for the payment of monies or other valuable consideration:

(a) Improving a buyer's credit record, history or rating.

(b) Obtaining an extension of credit for a buyer.

(c) Providing advice or assistance to a buyer with regard to either subdivision (a) or (b) of this paragraph.

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8 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

I don't think AZGFD meets the definition of a "credit services organization"

44-1701. Definitions

In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

1. "Buyer" means any natural person who is solicited to purchase or who purchases the services of a credit services organization.

2. "Credit services organization" means a person who, with respect to the extension of credit by others, sells, provides, performs or represents that he can or will sell, provide or perform any of the following services in return for the payment of monies or other valuable consideration:

(a) Improving a buyer's credit record, history or rating.

(b) Obtaining an extension of credit for a buyer.

(c) Providing advice or assistance to a buyer with regard to either subdivision (a) or (b) of this paragraph.

Arizona Game & Fish doesn’t meet the definition of much at this point. This is way beyond ridiculous 

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I think you are right TylerD.  Likely not correct.  So I just am asking G&F to explain why they chose the process.  Hopefully will get an answer by 2022...

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4 minutes ago, HuntHike61 said:

I think you are right TylerD.  Likely not correct.  So I just am asking G&F to explain why they chose the process.  Hopefully will get an answer by 2022...

I bet they will not respond.

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4 minutes ago, HuntHike61 said:

I think you are right TylerD.  Likely not correct.  So I just am asking G&F to explain why they chose the process.  Hopefully will get an answer by 2022...

Thank you for looking into this for us all.  I, too, have seen many posts about a mysterious law in AZ that precludes an upfront payment draft like NM.  But I have not seen anything specific.  I was very excited when you posted the statute but I had to look at the applicable definitions and see whether it would apply.  I open to the possibility that there is some law in AZ that prevents this, but I do not think it is A.R.S. 44-1703.

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