Str8Shot

I see a Muley In the top pics and 2 Coues in bottom pics ... not seeing a hybrid in any.

Red Sparky ... There are not SPECIFIC regulations as to game cameras ( plus this is Coconino, each forest can create or change rules if they feel it is needed) ... They do however fall under personal property ( if they did not you could not even use the term theft ) , so under the National Forest Rules can be considered abandoned and or litter. They also can be considered illegal if natural resources were damaged in use and placement, such as cutting live limbs or bolting into live trees. You can argue semantics and try to create the gray area in the rules, and your logic is not far fetched... but any person leaving anything of value unattended on Public lands should not be surprised if it disappears... especially with the screwed up mentality of many people these days. I know that all of outdoorsmen and hunters I associate with do not mess with stuff that does not belong to them, and I would expect the majority of the guys and Gals here on this forum would either, but I also know most of them these days do not leave personal property left unattended for any real duration of time because they do not trust or have faith it will not get jacked. It sucks cams were taken , but it is nothing new and it is something that anyone who uses them should be prepared for. Q has a very valid point as to leaving little traps on public land as non lethal as they may be... individuals doing this are opening themselves up to a lot worse things than losing a couple cameras.

Here we go Again .... Awe Man!!!! That Sucks.... but these days should be no surprise .. I think he is a douche bag, but I still can not empathize with your loss.

You guys are bringing tears to my eyes Such a shame what San Carlos has become , I know we hauled out a handful crappie, right at or just over 3 lbs, over all the years and thousands of fish boated in that lake... Such a shame, the glory of what once was San Carlos Lake ( Now more of a pond in comparison) is kept in good memories.

A familiar site right there!

I heard trphyhntr caught a 300 lb. one not too long ago ....

There are a couple areas I would like to, but have not yet. I have not been down in the last couple years... Think next time find myself in the unit with a tag I will do at least a few nights out in the bush.

Not proving your point .. just talking real world .. Stream and Creek fishing is like that anywhere .. The fish disperse upstream and down stream .. they find areas that offer what they need and have a capacity ... Trout can get very territorial of their pools on small creeks and streams thus spreading the fish out more .. Just the nature of that type of fishing .. You talk of quality waters, but small creaks and streams rarely have true quality waters like the larger rivers that have size and flow to carry a capacity for large breeding areas .. Lees ferry was once very quality waters that is now over populated and holding much more fish than it once used to and because of that the quality is not what it used to be. Can you still catch a couple big ones at Lees, sure , but I can still catch 20 inch browns in the areas I like and have fished for 30 + years ... One of them that suffered almost a complete kill not that long ago is seeing some numbers and quality bounce back in the areas. You say the answer is More Stocking and catch and release only , which is not always the remedy for quality fish but it is still implemented in areas ... Many areas have designated catch and release , artificial lure only ( which is all I use ) , Barbless hooks and so on to promote the same improvement in quantity and quality ... But areas you keep mentioning are high traffic recreational areas stocked for the very purpose to promote recreation and harvest... As an example at a fairly popular creek Seen 3 groups fishing all saying there is nothing there to catch, 20 yards down stream fishing differently then they were, I had 4 hooked and released in about 20 minutes with one about 15 inches .... They were casting the pools and middle water , I was fishing the edges less than 2 feet from shore parallel ... there is a reason it is called fishing not catching .

It is checkerboard and considered open range.... Not every plot has a recognizable boundary ... They have control fences and grazing areas fenced but each range consists of private + State trust land and in essence the Ranch , Who leases state trust for grazing, is essentially claiming it as ranch land ... It is for this reason that Larks idea for a land swap makes sense, as a clear boundary between state trust and Private ranch land could be defined and easements made or given while the Ranch still has the exact same function and access to grazing... Then if the ranch charged it would be for All their private land not a mix of both.. while those who are entitled to hunt state trust land via their hunting license would be able to hunt that portion of Land they have the right to with out additional cost going to the greedy. Remember Big Bo makes up over 50% of the Unit with 1/3 of their claimed ranch land actually State Trust Land.

So because you are not catching them they are not there ? They must have all been yanked out by those dang weekend warriors !!!! Cause the fish surely do not navigate the waterway up stream and down stream to areas beyond the hole they were dumped in... I guess do not share your sentiment because I tend to get away from the people and Dump holes of Stockers... I am not using Labs .. I am using real world , but go ahead and blame your lack of catching or not catching one over 14 inches on your theory .. Not going to try and change your mind .. Spinners are great but there are much better artificial baits to use in streams and creeks and one does not need a fly rod to fish a fly effectively on those small streams. If people want to stick to crowded stocking spots and catch those hatchery fish and take home , I have no issue with it... Have not fished Oak creek enough to speak to that , but plenty of places to hike on Tonto that will produce some decent fish and enough so that if I am staying overnight I will keep one for the Fire.

6th grade watching at school in library

Analog ...Talking Arizona only, My biggest brown is on my wall and it was 7 1/2 lbs 24 1/2 inches and Kept because when and where I caught G&F was asking if any Browns were caught to give them the innards so they could try and figure out what was happening to the population in the reservoir that is fed by the little Colorado ( I was 12 )... Since then I have released several Dozen browns between 16 - 22 inches over my years fishing and kept a handful from reservation lakes to grill ... My sister geared by me on her first time fishing for browns caught a 25 inch 6lb brown a few years back .. made the guys she was with jealous...

Coesmagnet , are you from Arizona ? Arizona is a different breed than most states when it comes to Hunting and Fishing Both... Our Creeks and Rivers have smaller and less pooling and less carrying capacity than many other states. and even in most those other states in similar waters 14 - 16 inch trout are monsters. G&F stock those areas because they know there is going to be a harvest by anglers ... Browns and Brook trout have never been a regular part of the stocking program. EVERY BODY OF WATER HAS A CARRYING CAPACITY THAT DIRECTLY AFFECTS SIZE HEALTH AND QUALITY OF FISH !

Yeah , The quality waters up at Lees is not what it once was... .You will catch a lot of fish but not many the sizes they once were ... Every body of water be it a stream, river, lake, reservoir, or home aquarium has a certain carrying capacity at which fish can flourish and reach large sizes ... most people do not understand this , they think More of something means more chance at bigger, which is not the case.

Magnet If you want any kind of size in a fish hatchery , fish must be harvested ... Fish size is influenced by the number of fish within a certain carrying capacity of the habitat , just as much as the food and nutrients in the water ... If you take two identical Reservoirs, and you put a 100,000 fish in one and 10,000 fish in the other... The reservoir with 10,000 fish is always going to have more Big fish and not just because less competition for food. I practice catch and release at about 80 - 90% but never have issue with another person doing as they choose as long as it is legal. To say that by people keeping caught fish all you will see is dinks is as inaccurate as saying that there will no longer be any big bulls or bucks because a hunter harvested the Big guy. In the small amount of streams and rivers that still hold browns that breed naturally , they are the lions in the eco system and will continue to grow ... Browns and Brook trout were introduced to their current habitats in the early 1900's and have never been a species regularly Stocked by the G&F ... They still exist because they still breed naturally in the habitats they were first introduced, unlike most Arizona Trout dumped in Reservoirs.

Bob Stay away from Reservation lake ... No Browns in there

Well if they let 100% of the tags in on those hunts it would look more like the money grab it is .... They are just getting their feet wet and if you think you have seen the last of the $$$$$$ go up or the cap at their minimum ... think again... IT still comes down on Them using 1/3 of what they call their Ranch that we all legally have access to , and All the people of Arizona Elk herd to profit , like they were a real private hunting ranch. Then you must really ask yourself ... Once all the caps are met and an outfitter calls up saying " Hey Man I have a Client willing to pay an extra $5000 for you to add one more hunter so we can go after a Bull we scouted". " do you think they are going to say NO ... I doubt it

Yotebuster browns up to about 15 inches are awesome for grilling , anything bigger you may be happier smoking the meat ... And if they are over 24 inches they look great on the wall .... Personally I do not keep any Rainbow or Cutthroat that I can not tell by size and color is a Hold over and wintered a couple times .. not a fan of the bland soggy white meat of hatchery fed trout that were stocked during the season.

I do about 50/50 keep and release when it comes to Browns... My preference for the grill is Brooks, Browns , then the rest... I do not think I will be keeping Tiger trout

Brown fishing at Horseshoe or Reservation just after Ice out .... Does not get much better than that

Here again you say the Size of the Elk Herd is such a big cost and burden , but the solution is to charge ( limiting a lot of people) , and put caps on hunts limiting hunters again ? Does it make any sense to limit the very people that could help balance out the numbers and help limit the cost annually to the ranch ? They try to paint the fee as going towards cleaning up and making repairs necessary because of the Hunters, I am not buying it neither is the majority of other hunters... If the Elk Herd were Lions taking slaughtering 20 head a day , I bet they would be begging for every possible hunter to come take one out ... But in a sense , Because Each Head of Beef is $$$$$$ and The cost per Head increases by the cost of grazing, watering and infrastructure( just as mortality and loss to predation ads to the cost per head) you are making a herd of Elk equal to that of predators , it comes down to dollars and cents. So again please answer me how limiting and locking out the very people holding the very tags to limit the burden of the Elk heard , directly impacting the cost per head, is the solution ? The herd is going to continue to grow and Big Bo will continue to raise cost to offset the $$$$$ per head they feel they are losing due to the herd using resources, cause lets face it somewhere someone thought that was a good idea and that is really what the dang fees are. Big Bo is Holding State Trust Land and Everyone's Wildlife Hostage and if you pay the Ransom every year you can get a shot ... Sounds a little like extortion to me.

The People Are The state just as The People are the country ... Governments, municipalities and State Departments Depts are their to represent the the people at every level, this is the very reason you pay taxes...The State Trust Land Department serves teh public funding Education K-12 ( makes you wonder why all the issues with education) and the 12 other beneficiaries, which were chosen by the voters. State Trust lands are not the same as Federal lands because they were given to create a foundation and means to fund and grow an education ( in most states ) As a Resident or Non Resident, your hunting license is your permit to use State Trust Lands.... TO say that Tax dollars are not and have not been spent to create and maintain roads on state trust land is inaccurate, just as It would be inaccurate to say No roads and easements are built and maintained by Lease Holders... To enforce Laws on State Trust land, agencies paid by TAX Dollars are used. Oh and Voters approved State Trust Land Swaps as well ... G&F does not own the States Wild Life Big Bo Does not own the States Wild Life (oh and the heard grew based on laws of nature not G&F trying to screw over ranchers and offer more tags) Big Bo Should not be able to deny access to some while profiting off the few ... We are all Tax payers , Who Purchase a Hunting License ( which includes your permit for State Trust Land use) , all in pursuit of OUR BIG GAME ... I honestly do not care that much about unit 10 , helped out on one hunt and seen what a cluster ______ that unit can be and that was Years ago ... I do care for all the fellow hunters who loved that unit and now put their BP's chasing Other Units ( i do not like odds in my preference units ) because they have gotten sick of the access issues and money grabs ... Lots of these Guys who not only volunteered for big clean ups and projects in the area but who also always took out more trash and left that area in better shape then when they arrived. p.s. - If the Elk herd is such a burden on resources and the cost of the ranch than hunters would be doing the rancher a solid ! Kind of like the guy down south , who in the bar before opening weekend was giving invites to hunt in and around his ranch and giving a bounty for a lion kill ....

I guess I was raised to stay out of people's private business. Whether it's their land, their marriages, or their lack of ability to type coherent sentences. It's a free country and you have a right to the things that are yours, you just can't go around forcing your ideas on other people. Seems pretty simple to figure out. Even for a "dakota punk". And that is exactly what 100+ armed hunters should say as they plow the gates down , We are only going to Use what is OURS TOO ! How Dumb Are you ? You keep saying their land ... NO body is arguing what they can do with Their Land ... Their Land does not and should not give them exclusive use to over 200,000 acres ( 314 square miles ) of ALL OUR LAND ....

SHhhhhhhh .... It is already bad enough that I personally know 9 guys that used to put in for Unit 10 exclusively before 2013 and now they only put in for the White Mountain Units, Quit screwing up the Odds We all know Unit 32 is the best for Elk

Holy crap!!! That is the most left wing socialist thing I've ever heard in my life!!! "Hey everybody! Let's hold these American landowners at ransom until they do what the government wants of them!" Good lord. I was concerned that the liberal hippies were dumb enough to vote for Bernie Sanders, now we've got CWT members getting more extreme then he is!! This is sickening. Yotebuster ... If a Government is trying to do the right thing ( representing the people ) to secure and allow access to PUBLIC LANDS( not Private) via Roads that many have had municipal tax $$$$$ upkeep and or make , How is that Socialist ? A True Blooded American Ranch owner in this kind of situation would Allow access to All His or Her Fellow Americans that Have the right to Use PUBLIC LANDS while only charging to gain access to his or her plots of PRIVATE LAND ... In the confines of a Private ranch ( that makes up over half of the Unit when you add the public land they are using and locking most others out of, and is Leased Not Owned by the parties involved in this money grab) There is over 200,000 acres of land locked Public land. That land lock Land is 1/3 - 1/2 of the 38 % of public land in the Unit... I feel it is Un-American to Hold our Public Lands Hostage and Profit off of Land and Wildlife that Every Tax Paying American Hunter should have equal access to... They can do what they want on their Private Land but the charge is not just for their private land it is also for access to Land owned By all that should be Free for all to Use or No-one to USE ... All the Tax Payers of the state Own the Wildlife and They are wanting to run this like a Private Hunting Ranch in Texas and Have the Tax Payers and Sportsmen Pick up all The bills... Pretty Fudging Un-American in My Eyes! p.s. I agree with Lark's idea ...