Str8Shot

I am selling this set Complete wheels,tires, and caps for my Dad .... Will let it go here for $450 http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/wto/5417977021.html

If kids have been crossing your land to get to a city park for 10 years and you throw up a brick wall, the city , state , or even parents could go to the courts to get a prescriptive easement and make you put an unlocked gate in that wall and a path for kids to cross to the park. If the park is landlocked and crossing your land is needed to get to it , an easement by Necessity could be obtained legally by a city, state or individual.... Ultimately if the state really wanted to they could use eminent domain to secure easements on all these roads used by generations to access PUBLIC LAND keeping any from being locked up... That would not stop an individual from restricting use of their private land but would allow ingress and egress via these roads to the general public to public lands... I do not know about you, but I would rather see my Tax Dollars and Tag fees spent securing access to OUR PUBLIC LANDS for all now and in future generations versus trying to bring wolves back or studying the mating habits of the chupacabra.

^^^^^^ Not a Good Day if not pissing someone off ^^^^^^^^ I respect and give G&F a lot of credit but I think there are some glaring oversights in this program and I think the one thing all Hunters in Arizona should expect, especially with this new Portal system, is better transparency when it comes to changes such as this proposal.... It would be nothing to create a flashing marquee link front and center that not only gave insight to such ideas but that offer direct public comments and concerns ... By the time it was put on the news feed most everyone I knew including myself were using portal , but It did not show up there .. it showed up on the old page ... There is no search function for the entire site. You can search all the news feed and if you type tag surrender in there you will find zip, zero , zilch ...

That's the first logical quote I've heard regarding the Big Bo. I'd like to see how everyone would like it if their neighbors started hoping the fence and walking through their backyard every morning and evening on their way to work. They'd understand in a hurry what private land means. Private land is private land. They can charge what they want when they want. The $500 fee won't even come close to paying the taxes on their land. Isn't there still about 230,000 acres of fairly popular, hunted for generations PUBLIC STATE TRUST LAND that is still only accessible through Big Bo .... I recall that being a major issue with the locals up there when they first started charging in 2013 ... I agree it is fair of them to Charge for Hunting on their Private land , but it should not be the case for use of the Public lands ... In unit 10 230,000 acres is a pretty big chunk

And you complain being a "guide"?Heck sounds like tons more business for you guys. Win win Wondering what kind of Bonuses Guides will be throwing to their lackeys with High Bonus points to go second on an app and surrender , waiting another year to go hunting ... I am sure some will be working every angle.

From what I have been able to gather , It has always been being sold as this tie in with Portal and paid membership of some kind , but it seems making it work they way they envisioned is not going to be easy or practical at this time so they are running with the tag surrender by allowing an option per app per applicant , which was never part of the discussion from what I have heard. Maybe the all knowing guys that went to all the meetings can tell us when it went from some kind of membership to an application option and why it was not communicated to the simple folk . AzElkhunter2 I am sure you can explain the memberships and how this is all going to work and how tag surrender is a part of that program as stated , since it seems clear that it was all laid out clearly for you just as it is written in their supposed communications.

Wow, did not know their were so many LIBERALS in sheep's clothing carrying guns,..... Others should lose out and pay for Mistakes made on apps , What ever happened to Learn from your Mistakes.... I Have made mistakes on Apps and I sure the heck would not expect a single other hunter to lose out because of my screw up ... Any one who supports this kind of BS the way it is ( I think there should be Tag surrenders but it should not cost and it should be a process that covers specific hardships that must be proven) is no different than the Obama Phone Lovers wanting a free ride because life is so hard and it is not their fault so they should not have to pay for it , others should. Too many tags in the family this year, I screwed up on my app, I screwed up because I did not know the BP system until after I submitted and a buddy told me , I live beyond my means and now can't afford the extra hunt this year IMO are BS excuses me... Any real excuse that keep a person from hunting that happens in life < I doubt the Hunt or BP 's are going to matter ...

NO this is a prime example of why an application should be stored in a cloud and editable by the person who started it ( administrator ) up until the change deadline for credit cards at least or within 48 hours of the draw

Awesome and Thank YOU ! ... Nothing like seeing the predators being thinned out

I will probably be at 9 for 2017 .... That will give me over a Year to take up archery and if I am not in the mood just surrender my Tag !

They better get ready for More Hunter' Safety Field Days ... Betting will be a lot of uninterested wives and kiddos taking classes just to get that extra point . p.s. I admit I may have given G&F too much credit in the previous thread thinking they would see the loopholes and come up with a way that limited abuse, may have to take my own advice and start looking to hunt out of state

You care about the Oscars? J.K. I think I am going to Start a Go fund Me for starting W.E.T. ( White Entertainment Television ) ... Then we can have the WET Awards and they can Have The BET Awards and the Oscars would still be as meaningless as they are today !

Please explain explain the dates of all these meetings ... The 2014 was about Portal and Bundling of services one being Tag surrender ... The minutes should list all the people who spoke on the issue including the public but I see nothing there .. The move was to set a plan for Tag Surrender by Jan 2015 to add to article 1 and develop via the portal MEMBERSHIP Multi Tiered Services ... Jan. 2015 Spoke of the Outreach ... Other than the 1 News report which was buried on the old G&F site when most were already using the new Portal site ( were it would be very easy to add an unavoidable graphic and link to such changes and outcry for public comment) I have searched all PDFs of Agendas and Minutes for 2014 and 2015 and I seen very little mentioned beyond The time line when such a change could be made to the Portal and active... In July 2015 It was still spoken of as a Membership Tiered Service of Portal but that would not seem the case if it is being charged per app per applicant ...IMO That alone would be enough of a change to re discuss the direction of Tag surrender. Remember the first discussion was " Would you be willing to pay a Monthly or Annual membership for the Portal and in exchange get these possible benefits" when did that change because I do not see it in print from the July 2015 link on the Article 1 addition. I know very few people over all the years that said man if I could just trade in my tag and get my points back and most of the time it was do to a family emergency or injury ( which is something that can be supported by medical documentation , just like the guys who what to be able to get a champ license. Surrendering 24 hours prior Will be abused by the Big Trophy Guys who are not seeing what they want that close to the start ... I could see a proven Medical emergency being good reason but something tells me that will be less the case. For group applications Don't allow it and create a New group or Family Application that if one tag is surrendered all are and allow it. Allowing for Group applications with the surrender will create BP pools and in 5 years 2 person applications with one surrendering will become the Norm IMO .... People will always look at way to abuse a system but that does not mean the system should not limit how many ways it can be abused ... OH and IMO surrendering a tag Because the family as a whole got drawn for too many tags is a piss poor excuse and IMO up to the individual to work around, it was his or her choice to put in so many individual applications versus a group app in the first place, one of the downfalls we should all be so lucky to deal with once in a while. p.s. Arizona is Unlike every other state when it comes to Hunting or Fishing ...

It is not a stretch of the imagination .. it is knowing how people already use the system and how $$$$ for a lot is not an issue when it comes to hunting ... With 3 willing non hunting relatives or buddies , and $150 extra spent a year ... within 4 or 5 years you can have you a pretty reliable BP pool so you are never starting below 4 or 5 BP's

I have met a few guys with a kid or two that hunts, and I am sure there are a lot more, who buy an extra 3 licenses a year ( for Non hunting wife , Non Hunting Gramps and Grams) and when any of the 3 get drawn they transfer to one of the kids..... Now say they have 3 non hunting people in the family sitting on 7, 8 or even more bonus points with this new way they will be able to throw one on an app with themselves and a kid and give an instant boost to odds of being drawn and keep boosting chances almost indefinitely with every new draw ... heck They will probably just choose to buy bonus points for 2 of the 3 to keep building their bonus point pool.. Oh and while they are at it start buying bonus points for any kiddos that do not hunt and use them in the future .... I know there are plenty out there that already do this with the tag transfer but now they will have a way to include themselves ... The money is not an issue for the people that do this already. Example ... 2016 Hunter A on app has 2 BP ( hunting Daddy got drawn last year ) Hunter B on app has 3 BP ( hunting Kiddo No draw helped daddy) Hunter C on App non hunter Wifey Has 9 bonus points ( only puts in to help kiddos chances to hunt but now forms a BP pool ) hunting daddy buys non hunting gramps and grams a bonus point they have 7, and 8 Hunters have 5 group Bonus points and gets drawn .... Mommy surrenders tag .. Kiddo and daddy go hunting 2017 Hunter A on app has 2 BP ( hunting Daddy got drawn last year ) Hunter B on app has 2 BP ( hunting Kiddo got drawn last year ) Hunter C on App non hunter Wifey Has 10 bonus points ( only puts in to help kiddos chances to hunt but now forms a BP pool) Hunters have 5 group BP and do not draw hunting daddy buys non hunting gramps and grams a bonus point they have 8, and 9 growing for BP pool 2018 Hunter A on app has 3 BP ( hunting Daddy ) Hunter B on app has 3 BP ( hunting Kiddo ) Hunter C on App non hunter Wifey Has 11 bonus points ( only puts in to help kiddos chances to hunt but now forms a BP pool) hunting daddy buys non hunting gramps and grams a bonus point they have 9, and 10 growing for BP pool Hunters have 6 group Bonus points and get drawn ... Daddy has no problem with the $$$ lost and mommy stays home cause next year gramps is on the list 2019 Hunter A on app has 2 BP ( hunting Daddy ) Hunter B on app has 2 BP ( hunting Kiddo ) Hunter C on App non hunter gramps Has 10 bonus points ( only puts in to help kiddos chances to hunt but now forms a BP pool) Start with 5 group BP's Rinse and repeat ... Game and Fish is going to make a lot money because for a lot of hunters they will start buying a license and BP for every age legal non hunter in the family to start building a BP pool ... heck probably guys that will be willing to pay for non hunting siblings and cousins too ... It will only take a few and a few years to guarantee a single hunter ( putting in on as a group with a non hunter BP holder ) will always be starting with 4 or 5 or even more BP's Knowing how families with kiddos already have been using the system for years this way , How allowing tag surrender on a group app makes no sense too me ...

Yeah I had found that after my post and searching the Article 1 Statute number ... I checked my emails and did not see anything missed ... I did not see it in the news on the new portal, but Honestly I do not see an archived section, However I was able to find it on the old G&F news feed ( Non Portal ) ... I recalled the thread from the 2014 and how many people were responding but it did look like a thread ( That I over looked ) was started in July Here .. did not see much action on it ... I sit possible I missed a single e-mail ... YES We all at times miss posts on forums If G& F really wanted input , one would think they could create a Big Button on the portal that makes it easy for all to see when there are proposed rule changes and make it so comments are sent and filtered through the portal .. Just my opinion. I am not opposed to tag Surrender , but I do not like the idea of how it can be abused and we all know it will be abused... We well see what a can of worms it is over the next few years

After Heat's response I decided to do a little research ... The term that the Game and Fish is using is " Tag Surrender" There was nothing listed on any agenda for public meetings... The original idea came along with the Portal system in 2014 and you Like I can search all the minutes from meetings, but I will give you the Bread and Butter ... In 2014 a plan for the Portal, bundling of services and Tag Surrender was to be developed by Jan 2015 ... Here is all I could find about any Plan ... Ms. Munig briefed the Commission on the Department’s progress toward rulemaking and public outreach efforts for Article 1 rules regarding Definitions and General Provisions. This presentation was informational only and the rulemaking recommendations will be presented at a future meeting. The Department is looking at developing a synopsis of the significant changes that are being suggested for Article 1. The two most significant changes deal with tag surrender and a change to how the 10% nonresident tags are issued in the draw process. The outreach plan will consist of news releases with solicitation for comment to all constituents and will be provided to conservation groups as well as meetings held in regards to the Customer Portal. (Content from http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/documents/2015.01.16-17%20Comm%20Mtg%20Minutes.pdf ) After searching News releases ... I could not find anything After Searching all Meeting Minutes for Public response ... I could not find anything Matter of fact the only thing you will find from the minutes in all meetings( which is very little) is the Portal discussion on implementing the change and Timeline ( was suppose to be Dec. 2015) No clear definitions or changes to Article one rules were presented. So if some of you that seem to know more about this than the rest of us can give more insight, I think a lot of people here would love to know. The one thing that seems very clear to me is, that G&F did not fulfill there commitment of outreach as described in the Jan 2015 minutes.

What makes you think they are going to call anyone once a tag is surrendered ? And would you at that point give up your points on a tag without any time to scout or prepare for a Hunt ? I would not ! If G&F offers them first come first serve over the counter without losing points they will be flooded daily with calls to see if any tags were surrendered and of course the other thing you may see is the guy walking in with a buddy ( or maybe someone he is getting $$$$ from off of craigslist) surrendering his tag and letting the person with him swipe in and buy it up .... I feel the best we can hope for is that the surrendered tags are given to the hunting charities like Hunt of a Lifetime... because with something like this in place I am betting they will suffer, losing a lot of tag donations. p.s. seems pretty easy to negate most if not any loopholes by making it Once per species on individual applications only . Why does that seem so hard ?

There was not that much communication on it or how the process would work ... A couple years ago when they were talking about creating the portal system , they were talking about and announced the possibility of making an account upgrade that would cost a little each month that would potentially allow those upgraded members to have a tag surrender option ... There was a post on here with a lot of questions and concerns , since then I do not recall seeing it in G&F news or as a bullet point for any of the meetings ( I could be wrong ) I think those that helped with the structuring see the loop holes and are chomping on the bit to abuse them.

I agree with Bonecollector ... It is Ripe for abuse the way they have it worded .. There are already people who abuse the tag transfer for Kids that put Grams and gramps and non hunting spouses in to effectively increase the chances for drawing a tag then transferring to a minor ... IMO even that should be a one time per species per minor child. Not to mention up to 24 hours before the hunt starts ... It should be at least 2 weeks prior to the hunt and G&F should make the tag available First come first serve. With a 24 hour window I doubt they have any intention to offer the tag to another unsuccessful applicant.

Small Game was a marlin 39 .22 Lever action ( age 10 ) Big Game was a Winchester Model 70 25-05 ( age 13 ) ... When I was 18 and in a Bind I wanted to auction off this gun , but Dad said No way and He would hold it for safe keeping until I was financially stable again ... Came to sight it in a year later for a hunt, and found it was gone and he had traded it for a 300 win mag ... To say the least I was a Little pissed

At 500 - 1000 if they are up I will see them with my eyes and no wider field of view than that so I want to see them tucked in the cats claw or hiding under a mesquite ... I think when you are talking sitting and glassing 500 yards plus 12x or 15x is a minimum ... I like the Vortex Viper HD 15x , because of the size I can use them off hand pretty well and My Walking Stick is a Monopod so really easy to brace the glass and pan fast or slow .. however I am feeling ( kind of best of both IMO) ... I do not think I would go under 10x unless it is for the pack and for glassing through thicker wooded areas while on the move. just my 2 cents.

Depending on condition and rounds down the tube IMO 600 to mid 600's Tops

I am trying to help my dad sell a set of wheels and tires for a 2005 or newer Ford Super Duty ... Here is link... http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/wto/5336222181.html ... Price dropped to $450 for forum members

Price dropped to $450 ... Selling only as a set