Str8Shot

heck's Gate is some great wilderness and varied in terrain majority pretty rough.... depending on which way you are going to head out or what trails you choose to take water can be found .... Monsoons can bring some serious water down Tonto Creek and side creeks so be prepared to change your route if bad weather comes... you should not see many others after a mile or two... as with any unit get a mile or two from the roads and you lose 90% of hunters ... I think you can still get a detailed guide on the trails and rules of that area at the Payson Ranger Station... Good Luck

you should know by the 17th ...

The gene pool on the res is no different than the rest of the state ... Elk Bulls start Breeding in as early as their second year... An elk takes 8-12 years to reach it peak growth and size ... that means any 375" + bull has possibly bred for 6-10 years .... nutrition from one year to the next can account from 5 - 15% reduction in antler growth ... So a 350 class bull may have pushed 375 if there were nutrition factors ... the Res has the quality because they limit, big time, the number of trophy Bulls harvested while culling out much of the lesser quality bulls during the rag horn hunts ... This is a practice, Hunters can do without regulations if they took it upon themselves, but too many these days want a 375 plus or nothing ... As a population increases so does the quality of nutrition over time you get more Elk with less antler growth .... herd management is based on Population versus range versus handling capacity for nutrition to ensure the best breeding and birthing season after season... Tag numbers are based off of what should be harvested to meet the goals ... G&F does not treat 375 class bulls different than a spike ... it is a populations impact on a range that can either help or hinder through nutrition limitations which change year to year based on climatic conditions and rainfall.... Genetics alone do not make giants in the 375 class and above , no matter what you like to think ... it is all factors working together that produce quality... It is far to common anymore for people to point the finger and blame someone else versus themselves..... Keep that in mind next time you are passing up 340- 350 bulls or heck even a a bull that visually shows they are lacking in genetics ... only to say I did not take my Bull this year because I could not find one over 375 ( and of course that is where you blame G&F all over again)

LMAO @ thinking 3c does not have any big bulls anymore .... and it Is not G&F killing them off it is trophy hunters and guides always looking for the biggest Bulls ... It takes an Elk 8 -12 years to reach peak growth and size ... there is a lot going on during those 8 -12 years ... there are still Big Bulls in 3c , do they cross the fence line a lot .. yes they do , but to say they are gone is laughable... with that said cull some of those rag horns out there .. it only helps in the long run !

giving the honor to game and fish for having big animals? Hahaha that's the funniest thing I've heard all year. We have big animals because of genetics. Ignorance at its best right there .... There are many reasons besides genetics as to why there are better quality animals in some states versus others ... herd management is a big one and that comes down to tags and game and fish .... Range is another and game and fish has been sponsoring for decades projects with other organizations as well as by themselves ways to ensure water catchments in various units to maximize the range of our animals. The scary part is that it could even be better and you only need look at the minor variations of the WMAT and how they manage the herds that constantly produce monsters... Those rag horn hunts do a lot to cull the population and ensure quality Bulls year after year. Talk to any Elk hunter in the nation and they will tell you if you want quantity look at places like NM and Colorado ... If you want Quality look at AZ. For anyone to deny that our G&F has nothing to do with that shows pure ignorance about how wildlife management works. Maybe you did not know less than 100 years ago there were no Elk in AZ ... And only about 90,000 in the entire country ... http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/game_elk.shtml https://www.elks.org/lodges/LodgePages.cfm?LodgeNumber=536&ID=368

Actually Doing this during the application process, as much as many hate the bugs ( and that is life on the internet, do not like it go back to paper only,) is actually very smart. #1 They get a greater number of guys signing up faster #2 They get them all signing up at same time allowing to see server loads and capacity #3 They get a Bunch of Beta testers who will whine so loud about every glitch and bug they see, the programmers can adress them more quickly #4 I am hoping for Some, they get great amusment reading forums like this and listening to Grown men cry and whine! p.s. Going out to Lark, you are a funny guy and while you may feel I have all the answers I do not! But if I were in charge and have read half the crap posted on CWT about G&F over the last 10 years .... I would go back to the old way of sending Pink Cards and Permits, even cutting out the phone results.....

Very Cool .. Hope to catch some images

It is one thing to say man it Really sucks another weekend has to go by without me knowing what unit I should drive to in order to plan... It is another thing to constantly disparage and beat down the people trying to do their jobs... I know if I worked for the game and fish I would have a real sour opinion of many of many of the individuals that make up the CWT community... I see so many talking about their religion and which churches they go to (my church is mother nature and the outdoors) but so many of the same people show no temperance while sitting in judgement and disparaging others that are trying to do their jobs. The funny part is, very often, Greed( as in individual opportunity) is the most often the motivation. Can anyone say Hypocrite ?

All you holier than thou, greedy guys on here whining and complaining really should take a chill pill, get out away from the computer, do some hiking , drink a beer , go fishing or do something ... The regulations say that Tags and Refunds will be sent by April 17th it is April 2nd... it does not say you are entitled to know what you drew or did not draw by any other date... Give the people a chance to do their jobs. Get off your high horses and realize the world does not revolve around you and your time line.

If you do not mind driving and want to be close to many lakes with great wilderness areas I prefer the White Mountain myself, and Hoyer campground... You will be walking or biking distance to the Greer Lakes , with in 15 mins to 1 1/2 hours you can visit from all 3 Greer lakes, little Colorado (sheep's crossing) Lee Valley, Crescent, Big Lake, (On the Res with tribal permit Sunrise and Reservation), Black River down to Alpine and the Blue .... There is so much to see up there that 10 days in a very good camp ground will not seem like enough ... granted there are many surrounding campgrounds that are not bad ( someone mentioned Winn) but Rainbow at Big lake is great too ... If it were me I would not try to cover all the North in 10 days , pick an area and make the most of it ... and next time pick another like Flag up to The Kaibab and Canyon, but that is just my opinion.... Good luck, Have fun, and be safe

You must be one of the older guys . . . You must work for Obama .... Editing a quote to change context and try and be funny ....

As I said a few weeks ago .... In honor of April 1st and Fools everywhere ... they will be up tomorrow .... but only for a minute before they make you wait until the end of the week !

Both are good areas ... if you have not been up there , the upper canyon creek would be my preference !

I seen a similar table top and the guy used some type of colored epoxy to make the holes look filled with amber.... was years ago and do not know how he did it but the finished product was pretty impressive ! good luck

Canyon creek has some spots that you have very close access .... If you want to camp and then head out for a short drive to scout and search 23, camping along Christopher creek is a good option as well. just all depends on what you are looking for.

This time of year never had a problem with wardens worry or peacock lady on Woods canyon... small peacock lady, stone fly or hairs ear as a dropper was what my dad and grandpa always used ....

288 to young . Forest service road 416 .... have fun getting out

133 6/8

The reality is that the parents are the ones who are ultimately accountable and the actions of teens can end up taking away the rights of the parent as well as fines. I can agree we all did stupid things growing up , but I grew up in a time where it only took a look from my dad or grandfather to know I would never be doing that again... When my friends and I (before paintball guns were around) cut off the tops of 410 shells emptying the shot and leaving the wadding in so we could proceed to play war, the whipping from the belt when my dad found out was far worse than getting hit at 30 feet with that wadding (and that too left a nice welt and bruise) ... I think these newer generations lack a great deal of respect and discipline in a majority of their decisions,when they approach situations and people, and that the parents here have a great opportunity to teach them a lesson, only question is will they?

In 6th grade, while on week long school trip,we were tenting just outside Phantom Ranch in the Grand Canyon . Having our back packs hung on lines did not stop this tight walking ring tailed cat from slithering his way into the back packs and stealing snacks during the first 2 nights. On the 3rd night that came to a stop, when he ended up hanging himself with a rope tie down while slithering out of pack. He was found hanging the next morning from a friends pack covered in orange and smelling of Doritos

April 1st ......Fools.... all will find on the 2nd a notice that the draw will be happening Soon!

Sweet , always good seeing those bloody decks... looks like a lot of fun was had.... by chance any work that area we seen all of them 2 weekends ago ?

Again, I seem to recall a bunch of holier than thou members her complaining about the late applicants and feeling that their last minutes attempt and the web site issues were not a good excuse for extending the deadline... These Guys went as far as pasting the disclaimer of non liability by G&F to support their position... Looks Like G&F should only use paper apps and apps that processed properly in system and stick to their guidelines... Yes I am playing devils advocate a little because I stated that when something like this happens, that the same ones complaining would then be all for G&F trying to right by them if it affected them. Let the week of whining, yelling, crying, and disparaging G&F begin!!!!

Amazing transformation .. Bad to Awesome

The males are working up into the thicker cover in shallower water, was tearing them up on a gold , with orange belly yozuri shallow runner fishing it slow stop and go .... look to drop shot the deeper water 15-25 ft for some of the bigger females, I did not feel they are staging real hard for the spawn yet , but should over the next couple weeks... crappie we could find in a few areas but getting them to take anything was a lost cause ( I am blaming that moon phase last weekend) that should change over these next couple weekends as well. these next couple weekends could be good for using a light at night in Salome for both crappie and bass, but that is my opinion.