Str8Shot

AZcoues here is a link to the Nosler Reloading Data .... Great caliber my Bro loves his but I have not worked up any loads for him..... but this is always the best way to start .... Good luck http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=255 And for IMR and Hodgdon data here is a link http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

don't know where you went to school? someone call the 1st grade math teacher. you said it, not me. when you see 400 deer and 1 if any 100" bucks that is .025% of the population, not 10-15%. according to your math, 40-60 100" buck should have been seen. something is wrong???? maybe this is the same math our very own G & F is using to manage. it's sad..... let's say that there should be a buck to doe ratio of 3/10. with 400 deer there should have been 93 bucks. based of your info at minimum 10% should bee 100 class bucks. once again 9 bucks should have made that mark. not even close..... SDR I was talking in general and not specific to any numbers I did make a grammer error in saying deer when I meant Bucks my bad ... but I was never using their numbers in figuring anything and if you read I stated less than 10 - 15 % which is also a more general statement I will go back and fix the wording thnx ... and the less than 10 - 15 percent number was one I had read I know it can be much lower than that but I doubt any higher ....

very well said.. Str8shot, This is not a pity fest, just the facts and observations that are mentioned. I myself have seen the decline in deer/bucks, in some units more than others, but the trend is happening. I will not shoot deer that score under 100", I dont care what tag I have, and it does not make me any better or superior to those that shoot smaller deer. There were days when those bucks got me very excited, and I simply like to challenge myself. To each their own. I simply would like to see those deer mature and grow up. I think that good hunters have made some intersting observations.. the buck to doe ratios that they have observed are not very good, and while they maybe and probably are off slightly, the message is that there are issues happening with the deer herds that should be addressed immediately by our game department. I believe it is a multitude of issues, and while there is more than one correct answer, there are some underlying prinicpals that begin with factual information not pie in the sky pulled out the behind stuff, that would help the dept understand what is happening.. Sorry guys about the wambulance comment I often forget how sarcastic comments can go over heads .... Still I understand what your saying and While I can not speak specific to your unit but to the one next to it I can tell you that we seen a very healthy number of deer this year .... With good buck to doe ratios and during the time of the scouts and hunt it would be more immature deer but Also scouted some real toads and good bachelor herds as well and more than a handful .... And the fawning was impressive as well with majority of what we seen as twins so the bucks did their job fine in early 09 as I am sure they will in early 10 ..... My issue comes from the Trophy hunters that seem to blame everything in the book but the practice of taking only the most mature bucks .... Culling many of the small more immature deer is as important to the overall Size and health of the herd as well as the quality of your trophies as Taking out year round predators like lions ...... It is far more complex then to many tags /hunts/hunters but that is all to often the easy excuse to not seeing the numbers of bucks you may have seen a year or two prior .... SO when i hear a hunter who sets his sights on the size bucks that exclude all but about 10 percent or less of the bucks on the hill and blame everything in the book for not having an enjoyable hunt I feel no empathy for him or her ...... Maybe sticking to all the does at that time was just the wrong strategy for you guys..... We still have 8 to 15 days before the Rut really kicks in anyways so that gives you time to grab your bows and go turn your frowns upside down

Someone call the Wambulance ...... It is called hunting for a reason and yet it seems so many want to blame G&F for their lack of success .... to many tags , to many hunts, the wrong dates for hunts .... IMO hunters need to step up and look at their own delusional desires for only the biggest .... If your hunting for a trophy that makes up less than 10 or 15 percent of the buck population in the herd than you are on a 10 or 15 percent hunt... it does not matter coues, muley , elk it is all the same....I want to know when 100" plus coues made up more than maybe 10 percent of the bucks seen in the field.... to hear someone say they passed on a 100" 2x2 and then complain about less opportunity or quality is absurd ... Do that many of you here think it makes you less of a man or woman to drop a smaller deer, or maybe you think dropping a toad is the only way to make you seem like a good hunter? ...... 3 weeks during almost the best time of the year vs. 1 when it is hot and miserable and to still hear hunters crying... please .... Here is an idea for you Get rid of the late Nov. hunt and triple the number of tags for Dec. making 3 week long hunts P.S. just watch when several more toads come out of the unit before the end of January with an arrow stuck in them will you still be crying all the big ones are gone ......

Nice Job done... all you guys and young lady have great looking kills and some good eats for the grill.... Aaron sounds like you have had some year out in the field with all the help on youth hunts to your guys Dec tags you deserve the success after helping all those just getting into the field ....

I am guessing that is when she added the current forum system to her site ....

DEC. 23rd is a very good day indeed..... Happy Birthday CWT

Azonecam "Of course, I'm assuming that most of these comments come from total newbies - there are plenty of guys who think they're going to get GPS coordinates to the next record book buck while surfing the 'net, but I think they are an insignificant minority." Azone you mean you cant find detailed info online ...... Guess it depends on where you look if they look hard they might find some info like this that I found.....

I think it is funny that guys don't just up and say what Unit they got their animal ... Personally when I get a Monster be it coues or any other game I will shout it out with glory what unit the kill came from .... I would want to share it with the fellow hunters especially the ones that were hunting the same unit who may have not been as lucky sometimes seeing others success can bring happiness after a bad hunt where to many guys use the excuse that there just must not be any deer/elk/turkey ect... left .... A unit does not give up where you killed it and if your worried about that don't take any field pics because there is much info to be told in just looking at a pic .... sometimes down to exactly where not just what unit and 80 percent of the time there is enough info to at least narrow it down to a few units ... So why complain

How about we Just call Coues .... Coues , and we can Call all the rest White Tails no matter what sub species then when a hunter says were he bagged his Whitetail we can get into the specifics of which sub species his animal falls in .... p.s. can we add words to the spell check dictionary or does Amanda have to Coues to the spell check dictionary so it does not come up as being misspelled?

I believe it is considered a Leucistic deer since the eyes are normal colored ... Still a pretty rare sight and a cool one at that

Awesome buck !!!! way to GET-R-DONE !!!!!!

Good clip Jimmer.... If there were no $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ signs attached to the Green movment and Global warming the Al Gores of the world would would be skeptics as well, instead of snake oil salesmen trying to rip off the common man through scare tactics... The Vanity of man to think that we have control of this earth and Mother nature and deny the natural processes that have existed way before us.... That does not mean I do not believe in minmizing our carbon footprint to improve our quality of life and the habitats around us, but never once have I or will I believe that we are ever going to create or stop Major Natural progression be it the weather or the eruption of a Super volcano through this process ....

Muleyman .... I think you are hung up more on his occupation than anyone cares . Did you get shot down by the fire department did they some how ruin some childhood fantasy of yours .... Did you have a girlfriend or wife leave you for a firefighter, or maybe it was your boyfriend... I don't know either way I think it has more to do with his profession than anything that you want to be such an butt ..... You are a piece of work not to be able to show any compassion or empathy for a loss of not just a human but also a fellow hunter that fell in harms way in a freak tragic accident that could happen to anyone including you .... I doubt you always set up your tent in a big clearing a couple hundred feet away from all trees .... or maybe your such a tough guy you cant handle a tent and use a trailer or camper they keep you warmer right .... He is not the only hunter getting attention and if it was a plumber under that tree he would be getting just as much press because that is what the news does in these events of harsh weather that end in deaths .... Maybe you have realized how pathetic you are and when you go by the way side from this earth that no one will really care .... there will be no one mourning you and that has you upset .... Don't know for sure but you seem to have some issues you should be looking into that would make you feel entitled to Make as heartless of a statement as you did .... You want to talk about being some bad tough mountain man from Wyoming, then Cowboy UP, saddle your horse and leave Arizona .... I rarely wish harm on anybody but I hope Karma gives you a similar fate as what he had (minus the being asleep and instant death... I would prefer you suffer) and when it is said and done no one hears about it and you are forgotten....... can't wait for your laughter, but behind the BS laughing in your post is a guy who knows he is screwed up and would not be missed when he is gone .... And For that I feel Sorry for you

I think that the upper plateau will be seeing the rut around the week of Dec. 20th with the lower plateau kicking in gear mid to late January .... But that is just me

Well I know the weekend before last up in the 3c area (we were on the res) while we seen a bunch of squirrels early when that snow started falling they multiplied by 10 all out running around having a good time ...... Look for the fresh needle clippings around those trees that is where you will find them

Maybe they should just make a new team sport The NAHL North American Hunters League ..... Up to 11 men/women in a team and put some refs out in the field to give penalties in the form of loss of hunting time when a rule is broken .... Wow that would get confusing would everyone need a camera for instant replay ..... The score is just as much a sign of respect for the beauty and splendor of such a deserving specimen of the wild as it is to the Hunter .... Let the scores stand ( i do agree with some kind of volume score but that wont be happening) and in the book list the hunter and all that helped in taking that beast so all will know if it was one lone hunter or a Hunter with a Posse ..... Don't think those guys who take pride in getting their names in The books will like to be only one of 12 listed behind the animal taken I would think it a vanity thing.....

Hope he does well in the room and recovery .... they would have known right away if it was ruptured .... I know from experience it sucks

Check the hills overlooking the 12th green !!!!!

There is always a nice warming period before the strongest storms

They are all over that unit ...... keep looking you will find them .....

I would say 37b ..... As far as 36b this year I did not see near the number of javalina running the hills as last year but the ones seen were Big if you choose 36 b hit me with a pm and I can give you some areas to check

AIM LOW !!!!!!! with that being said at distance less than 300 yards I was always told stay in the kill zone unless the up or down angle is greater than 25 degrees .....

Nice job and nice buck ..... Now when hunting gets tough she just may try making you work to improve her Mojo

Think it depends on what you are looking for ..... Driving off road as well as tons of scouting trips I have seen Just as much game from the road in southern units as the northern ....... if your talking about getting in good locations not far off the road where you can glass and maybe get a few hundred yard shot on Mule deer or coues I would say the lower units bellow the rim ..... 23 as good as the unit is has a high density of road hunters , and road conditions as well as proposed closures may make an impact on the years to come (we will see) .... The 24's offer good as well as the bad of 4x4 roads that will let you get high and have lots of glassing potential ..... As much as your going to be bashed about the road hunting thing (and something I am not a fan of) Not a hunter on this site has not spotted quality game from a road driving and not let that be a reason for further investigation into the area they have seen them.... and I highly doubt that any hunter here in traveling to a specific destination that jumps a quality animal from their vehicle that presents them with the time to get out and make a quality shot is not going to take it ..... As much as I like to get away from the roads the fact is that a big majority of hunters drive from dawn to dusk with a few stops in between and in doing so have their fair share of tags filled including some Toads ..... If it is your day then it is your day and to try to state one unit as better than another from a road would be hard to do IMO .......