Str8Shot

AZphil The border patrol activity is high all over the unit and so are the deer .... We have hunted it only the last couple years but many many scouting trips and 2 Hunts down there we have been impressed with the numbers seen as well as the amount of fawning we have seen the last 2 years.... there are so many avenues to go in that unit and find bucks but if you are patient and willing to get a little off the beaten path that late November hunt should be a fun one .... while there are some tanks that are dry many are not dried up .... we have put in a lot of time over the last couple years covering about half the unit finding what roads go where... areas that can be hiked to, getting away from most if not all the pressure out there if you want any general info just PM me and I can point you in some general directions that with some scouting time will have you seeing a lot more than you did last year.... Good luck on the scouting and your Hunt Chris

Couesaz as I stated in the post that the deer MOVED a few feet to the right from where I glassed him directly in front of an Ocotillio .... thinking he was a lone Buck my mistake was not focusing on the rack one more time before dropping him having done that I would have seen I was wrong about the lone buck thing .... It was a 254 yard shot and with eye never leaving the scope watching my deer drop I seen the one buck get up from the left of the ocotillio maybe a foot or two above and back from where the deer I shot originally stood in my binos before switching to my gun then the other 3 got up from the right about 8 yards up from the kill .... They were laid up tight and did not even spook right away running .... the largest bodied one with the most mass on his Rack slowly worked up to a saddle where I guided my buddy to him and where he placed his shot at about 290 yards while the other 3 hung lower between the fallen deer and the one about to get shot... with the one that had been laid up close to mine staying trying to nudge my fallen deer up from the ground to hit the road .... My friends shot was a few minutes after mine and at that point the others moved a little faster none flagging and running at all and the 3x3 that was nudging mine was last to move up and just in time to save himself because the other friend hunting with us was confused and slow on getting to us and missed having a perfect shot by only about 40 seconds...... I understand that you are trying to stir things up but to try to compare a single bullet passing through an animal and hitting and killing an unseen animal behind him is far far different then locking and loading three or four different shots on multiple seen targets .... I did not say accidents do not happen in the other post I stated that when it is a conscious decision to fire on multiple big game after you suspect you hit one is no accident ..... and I can tell you another thing if that buck I shot who was thought to be alone did not fall in his tracks and ran there would not have been a second shot fired at any other of the bucks larger or not that came out ..... I would have waited, hiked, confirmed the shot and tracked the one I shot to where he laid if it so happened I missed the shot there is always tomorrow to get back on them ..... I am sorry if you think that my way of thinking is brash and harsh and that there is not enough gray in my thought to call such things that some do accidents but in the case of a True accident something unseen something unplanned without intention I do have understanding I do have empathy and I do believe in trying to make it as right as possible.... on the other post that was not the case a conscious decision was made to fire on a different animal .... Thanks for your concern though it is appreciated

Not sure where you were hanging out but on the early hunt we seen tons of deer everyday .... lots of does (many with fawns and lots of twins) ... lots of spikes and forks and several big ones ..... we went 3 for 6 with 2 missed opportunities for another hunter .... I made a bad mistake and ended up shooting a deer which when glassed was a good 3x3 but in the transfer between the binos and the gun and a few feet of movement on the deers part and my lack of confirming the head gear before my shot the 3x that I thought fell in his tracks, it ended up being a spike when I got to the Kill... The 3x3 was laying just up on the slope in the grass with his body and rack right behind behind the Spike .... He along with another 3x3 , A large fork and a huge body 3x2 came out of the grass when mine fell and my buddy was able to take the big 3x2 (80"-90" (dressed out was well over 100 lbs)).... it was Hot most the hunt with a 25 degree temperature drop over night for the last 2 days .... over all 8 days we probably seen about 120-130 does & fawns about 15-20 or so spikes and small forks, a handful of 80"-90" bucks and unfortunately the largest bucks 4 100"+ bucks seen the week before and one much larger seen the day before opening morning going to bed did not seem to return to the area they were hanging .... a couple camps set close and the number of hunters running the roads seemed to send those guys into hiding and we were not able to get back on them .... It was a great hunt and lot of hiking and a lot of lessons were learned (note to self-double check the rack through the rifle scope of the one your shooting ) but we seen deer and lots of them .... Chris

Yeah I seen from a different post after I commented here that he is shooting a 7mm with custom Barnes 150 gr loads grouping at 200 yards .... Both shots were way under the range he seemed to be accurate at... "I am looking thru binos @ the elk he has shot" ... his words not "shot at" not "missed" Now while I agree and understand that binos are used to evaluate shots ... you as well as every other person here know that there is a multitude of info to determine if you hit the animal you are sighted on .... it was not a Coues @120 or 60 yards it was an elk... Did he see dirt fly through the binos? (doubt that 150 gr bullet would pass through) , what about the sound? we all know that thud a bullet makes when it hits .... how did the animal react ?according to the post she moved but was not running was not taking anyone else with her... if time had been taken and she was not wounded she would have drawn back to the herd ... Sad you think that doing the right thing before you have to make an excuse for doing something stupid is a high expectation COUESAZ ... and your dang right that i think there should be some consequence for poor choices (not accidents) And Yes both son and father or just the adult temporary losing hunting rights (1 or 2 years) IMHO would be fair ... but having nothing done and then posting here about how doing the right thing by contacting G&F saved you from consequence does a major disservice To AZ hunting... Teaching his son to have confidence in his shot Teaching his son the patience to wait and see the outcome of placed shots Teaching Him how to accept the disappointment if he had lost the first one he shot at these all would be good lessons but instead he taught him to make a bad decision and then try to make it right after the fact .... Not a good life lesson to learn in my opinion

I Agree 100 percent with this statement...... The ethics of hunting go beyond just filling our tags.... and teaching our kids that it is OK to shoot at multiple targets til one drops in its tracks is way off the course of doing it right .... from this post it sounded as there was some confidence in the first cow being hit the cow ran 60 yards without the others leaving just no blood through the binos , now add that it was a youth hunt odds are he was not using a cannon ultra mag but most likely something on the lines of a 308,270,or maybe a 243 (most likely with a lighter load) now add the fact that Elk often take a lot of abuse from misplaced bullets and don't show the obvious tale tale signs of being hit (they clot pretty quick) .... I ask the question, why trying to see sign of blood through binos seemed like the logical means in determining if the Cow was hit? ( I think it was not to determine IF, but if in your mind the shot or shots were fatal) .... As far as doing the right thing, that time was up the second you made the choice to take the other cow.... It was not an accident it was a choice and as far as going the extra mile and reporting it to G&F to somehow make it seem better IMHO is a crock... if anything it is a joke and to put up this posting stating the lack of disciplinary action taken by the department is far worse because a good percent of guys that may read this will think it is OK to pull stunts like this, if they feel that there are no consequences to poor decision making in the field. IMHO... both elk should have been seized... Fines should have been set .... And at least a temporary loss of hunting privileges should have been handed down!!!! Sad to think that people try to categorize Poor decisions with An Accident ... THERE WAS NO ACCIDENT ... ONLY A CHOICE AND A POOR ONE Just my honest Opinion Chris

AS Far As I have known for my entire life here in AZ if it has a sign marking it as a FS numbered ROAD it is legal to travel if there is no sign labeling it as a road it is an easement and technically not an open road for public use ..... SO are these restrictions on Forsest Service numbered roads or easements that many hunters have just been using ???? Since I was a kid (now 35) I can remember my grandpa and dad stating no number on the road means it is a closed road ???

Whichever one presents you with the best shot FIRST ...... or you can flip a coin and let fate decide

awesome buck I am going with 127 7/8 .....

We're sorta like 7-11. We're not always doin' business, but we're always open.

AC we stand on the razors edge of a double bladed sword..... A bunch of bodies littering the land down there will only help the predator population which would slowly start taking its toll on the Deer herds ...... The first line in my opinion is the Samaritans and the other groups calling working with these cartels putting out food and water caches .... these people are criminals and should be treated like them .... they may put some stuff on well traveled paths for the average IA but I have seen many remote caches that there is no way the average IA would ever find ... only someone with detailed maps or most likely GPS would even come close ... SO IMHO I believe that these organizations work closely with the drug cartels and coyotes in aiding them in their tasks .....

The best campfire story gets better when as your drinking your cold beer talking about every hunt experience since childhood you are interrupted by TWO green and white trucks pulling in and four guys jumping out... strapping on their Automatics and testing their night vision optics telling you that they have to push out through your camp going after some illegal activity in the hills behind you... Great guys and dedicated they won't even accept a cold one for the trail they head out ..... A few hours later you are awakened in your tent hearing the sounds of them dragging their catch back to the trucks ..... You must Stand and Respect them for what they do and they are pretty vigilant at it and in doing so they put themselves at risk..... I have seen air response in minutes of calling in mules in some remote areas .... I have had them buzz us out scouting in an area that put us almost on top of the border ..... Have even helped a newbie after he got his truck stuck in the wash and I have yet to meet any that were not good guys .... They are doing their best but this situation is greater than them and we as hunters can help by keeping them informed .... They respond to the info we can give them ... So with that being said we all can help .... carry cell phones .... log GPS locations and direction of travel and anytime you get the chance to talk to them do so .... and always hope for every hunter out in these units that they are safe in the middle of this messed up situation which our government seems to downplay the severity of .... I say thanks to all the Border Patrol agents that try to help with this problem every day Chris

BML I was wondering the same thing it is there in the lion pic as well .... thinking maybe some type of attractant dispenser .....

Well Joking around the campfire with the guys I thought of how many states have you Harvest a Doe before you can Harvest your Buck and thought maybe in our Southern Units that a Harvest a drug runner before your Buck program would help thin down the numbers pretty quick ....

On a recent Scouting trip in 36b My cousin and I had a near run in with a group of Four similar individuals ... as we dropped down into a thick tight part of the road leading to Amole Tank ..... we drove within about 140 yards when we seen them through the trees, all sporting Tactical style weapons and looking like a crew cut from a Hollywood movie... we watched them for several minutes through the thick trees with our glass from inside the truck .... Even though we were still a mile from our deer destination and packing heat of our own the logic kicked in and we hit it in reverse pretty fast.... why tempt fate .... I later spoke to BP about the foursome and I too was told the same thing that many of these groups now packing in those hills are on the hunt, but for two legged creatures with big bails on their backs ..... All I can say is we have figured out where not to hunt in the unit based on several sightings of not just these guys but many mules making haste on their way north through out the hills..... With that being said in the unit we have found plenty of areas with little to no activity from our bordering friends to the south, but I will second with the caution ... Be aware ... Be observant ... and be smart and make sure if your a newbie stop by the check point and save the BP phone # in your phone.... you would be surprised the areas you find a signal down there and the react quick to activity called in from us hunters .... We will be headed that way later this week and while deer is the main goal .... having a good time while being safe is the other.... Good hunting to everyone this season and be safe Chris

Bear mountain a couple weeks ago had lots of everything you need .... prices were a little higher but not so much to break the bank and not to the point that waiting week in week out would be worth it...... here is their site http://www.bearmountainsports.com/

I agree with AZone... I do know that many studies I have read seem to hint that the diminishing amount of daylight helps in triggering a does estrus cycle and longer lengths of daylight hours after 4-5 weeks following the fist sign of the Beginning of the RUT usually begins the peak time of the rut (daylight hours start climbing up slowly after the winter solstice this year DEC. 21st) Many also state During the Full and during the Last Quarter phase of the moon higher percentages of deer are taken in the daytime hours .... But as AZone stated as well as most of the biologists there are many other factors that can change things up and no studies give guarantees.... And don't forget that there often is a second rut as the does go through their cycles ..... Being able to enjoy that dance as ONE stated is a big reason that I finally took up archery.... this waiting for that coveted late rifle hunt gets tedious .... Good Luck

I must say that the founder of this site that brings out the passion in all of us hunters..... Deserves one awesome day on that one day of the year where everyone reminds you that you are officially 1 year older..... Hope you have the best day today and every one that follows... and of course HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!

I feel that they need a better way to gather the mandatory reporting of harvest information but don't feel that that info alone being more accurate gives significant data to determine upcoming #'s of tags ..... IMO things like 2 or 3 year rotations on units limiting the numbers of hunts in both general and archery would help in making stronger larger herds .... I have seen it in a couple units already that have had a more limited number of tags the last couple years and the quality and quantity has improved .... IMO including mountain lion in the cost of or license and keeping it year round even with the 1 lion a year rule would significantly help the predation state wide ..... But i think the reality in a world and system fed off revenue that 10-25% margins of error will never effect the need for making the $$$$$

In my opinion the extra weight is worth it to have the more sturdy therma rest .... The difference in weight can be off set by looking into a quality Sleeping bag in which many weigh in at several pounds lighter than most , as well they come in with a much smaller size in a compression sack and offer plenty of options in temperature ratings.....

I guess I am in lost in your questions .... if you are talking about over the counter permits they are available for Archery Deer in all units but those for draw Such as units 1,3a,3c,7,12a,12b,13a,13b..... The times for archery are set in th the non permit archery hunt info in the regs and specify what units at what dates.... Archery Deer is mandatory reporting on harvest If you are asking about Bear .... The same applys with bear being a non permit tag and open to more legal methods of hunting however each unit has a cap on the overall harvest for each time frame and if wanting to hunt you must contact G&F and know if the HArvest limits have been met and if the hunt in such unit you choose is still open .... Mandatory reporting on Harvest is required Moutain lion is also a non permit tag over the counter and the season which a few years ago was year round has now been shortened and annual limit of 1 mountain lion per year except in certain units stated in the regs .... Mandatory reporting of harvest is also required As of 2 Years ago there is also limited opportunity non permit ELK tags available these are much harder hunts and in units with lower amounts of ELk and very Small Home herds available .... Here too the specifics for each hunt and unit and method of take are listed in the Elk regs .... For Turkey your non permit over teh counter choice is for Achery only and the specific units and dates are listed under Archery non permit tag Turkey in the Regs .... If in Question Check the Regs and your local G&F office or warden ..... As far as taking big game on your private property in AZ is not allowed unless specific property is in a unit and a hunt time in which you possess the TAG .... Not sure if that is what you were looking for but maybe it will help

Therm-a-Rest ...... we have used them for years and countless trips .... they always make sleeping easier and much more enjoyable.....

Yes I went extreme on you guys, but only after the mud slinging came from many of you .... I guess I am sick of reading posts where when someone does not agree with the masses every smart butt has to make judgement..... I spend my time in the field I know what is going on out there and YES I do not believe in baiting or feeders and there is nothing ANTI about that belief .... You say it is legal well I agree and the last post shows you what I mean ... DO I know many areas where cams hang over areas that have both mineral licks and bait .... in about 7 or 8 very popular units .... DO I See on average 1 - 3 CWT trucks in the field in certain areas before the hunts start IS IT LEGAL FOR ME TO POST THAT INFO FREE TO EVERYONE WHO MAY WANT TO KNOW ... YES IT IS >>> DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT ??????? BY your simplistic definition it does ..... I have mixed feelings about the crowed here on cwt ... and it did not use to be that way .... but more and more I am not so sure you all practice what you preach when it comes to standing up for fellow hunters and being one as a group.... You talk the talk but I have seen post after post on this site that questions if you walk the walk .... I know some do here and I have had PM's from them stating feelings the same as mine .... My tone in my posts while some may say is harsh is also filled with passion and mixed with a lil sarcasm.... But for to many the sarcasm is hard to understand if you took something personally from what I wrote the let me tell you I am sorry I hurt your feelings.... With that being said My point of view remains the same when it comes to baiting and feeders I don't agree with it .....

I find it funny when you disagree with the masses of this site ...you all want to gang up and sling names and threats .... you say stand up for your fellow hunters and be one not divided...but when a guy is needing help and asking for hunt help in the forum he is shunned by the majority on here and made fun of usually in the process with only a certain few usually only giving much help... You are so afraid of mentioning units or areas you spot or harvest game ..... I think the clique of guys on here that seem to try to speak for everyone is a joke .... Let it be said now if I find your cams in the field .... if I find your bait hole ... or see a CWT vehicle scouting a certain spot from thi stime forward I Will publish the exact GPS cordinates on every hunting forum up..... I may just start my own site specializing in giving away this info and I alrerady have plenty to share .... I will never Steal or damage your hard earned gear ... but I will share the info freely to all the e-scouters who want it ..... you want to be that much of asses to others who do not agree with your opinions .... I can show you what a butt can be back .... Happy hunting I know I will

Coues n Sheep you really think I care what you think .... or anyone else for that matter .... the straight truth is people do these things because it benifits them and guess what I call it like I see it .... you want to lable ANTI then I can gaurantee you would be putting that lable on many old timers that have hunted this state for generation after generation .... SO I do not conform ... and I do not buy the BS the guys try to shovel about trying to help the game ...... If hunting wild game was ment to include a more domesticated form of animal they would have open seaon on the Cattle running the hills .... I don't care who does it ... but I do have an issue with those trying to say that they do these things to help the deer and not themselves that is the biggest crock of BS and if you want to swallow it then enjoy the taste cause I won't ..... You have a problem with my opinion good for you.... I have a problem with yours

Wow.... AZTROPHY ...you must be right with all the tanks that have been dried up the last few months including many many man made tanks the deer must just be dying out .... They must not be smart enough to find water somewhere other than a tank with a road leading to it.... what a shame it will be with so many deer just dying cause we have not put out enough feeders and water sources .... Shame on us .... you have me almost convinced to become a MASTER BAITER.... na not really