Str8Shot

Think I will have a big laugh at all you .... Spell Check ... I guess your so used to seeing misspelled words when they are right you think they are wrong .... I may have one every now and then but not a fraction of the misspellings that are on CW.... Steven For your Question do I hunt over water .... the answer is no .... DO I hunt within the 1/4 mile of slopes surrounding water yes as any would .... But not over a tank .... and as far as this year goes I can tell you that I too have seen plenty of dried up tanks ... I have also seen little pockets of water(smaller than a large pot) where the springs are bubbling up and with 100X's the fresh track than the large butt tank that is still full ...... I am not against any of you in hunting the way you want to hunt knowing that it is legal .... but that does not mean that I have to agree with it ... that does not mean when the topic comes up I Should just stay quiet ..... And if you want to look through the past post you will see who starts slinging out words like ANTI's and others before I even coined the term MASTER BAITERS....... The fact is the truth hurts with you guys ,that is why you get so defensive .... BAIT Is your friend feeders make it easier for you .... I understand it and it is legal so do it .... BUT I DON"T HAVE TO AGREE THAT YOUR DOING IT FOR THE GOOD OF THE ANIMALS WITH NOTHING TO GAIN FOR YOURSELF ....

SO your saying that deer don't adapt and they all use man made water holes and trick tanks ..... The reason for the need of any water catchments in az and most other places is do to MEN changing the surrounding areas... divirting water, tapping springs and last time I looked water fell from the sky and bubbled from the ground.... Don't try to sell the fact that it is needed... nothing is needed ...The animals will adapt and have way before the practice of feeders and man made water sources ... water sources that most were never put in place with the thought of wild game in mind but to support the herds of cattle free grazing the lands througout Arizona .... AS HUMANS WE WANT IT and WE WANT TO CONTROL IT... AND AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL IT IS RIGHT .... well remember one thing most of the actions taken by mortgage companies and the banking industry that screwed everyone in this country were legal .... SO DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT ....

Wow a 100 yard no hunting cushion from a feeder ..... that sound like it must help the deers chances a bunch..... I think it is all BS our wild Game not just in AZ but the entire country have everything they need in MOTHER NATURE .... baiting, using a feeder or dumping in a canyon is just MEN trying to gain more control over their own odds .... and in my OPINION it is the work of lazy hunters .... you metion twin fawns well in the last 2 years scouting a southern unit I Have seen well over 60 doe and more than 80% of them had twin fawns along side them .... So you can state that your doing it for one reason but the reality is that Feeders and people that use any type of food source that is not naturally occuring in that area is always for the benifit of the MAN .... WE ARE A GREEDY SPECIES .... WE WANT MORE .... WE WANT THEM BIGGER ....... AND WE WANT THEM TO COME TO US , CAUSE WE ARE WAY TO LAZY TO FIND THEM ON THEIR TERMS.... JUST MY 2 CENTS

My bad, your right on KOBE ... but the process is correct ....lol

Several years ago, I spent a lot of time ballistically mapping my 300 win mag out to 1000 yards. Opening day I glassed up a small carp at 765 yards. I dialed my turrets according to my chart and dropped him on the first shot. (no wind) Somebody please tell me, was that HUNTING or was that CHEATING? Please tell me, I gots to know! Why is shooting a lion treed by dogs considered "fair chase"? Maybe because lions eat "your" deer? Mark Bowsniper was that off the arm ... a bipod or the CLAW .... not that it matters which one.... it would still be an awesome shot and one not to many have the time with their gun and calibrating to make ......

I agree on Ice cream... and I get the sarcasm.... wish others would get it even when it is written right on the next line .... I have alot more sarcasm on the subject but think I will tone it down for a bit ..... I am digging myself a grave as some might say

I love the defensivness and the threats .... Oh no I dug My Grave!!!! What am I to do ..... Not practice my 1st Amendment rights ... Not disagree with the masses of clique hunters here .... I don't think most of the users of the site are that shallow .... but seems like you may be able to speak for them

Just because my beliefs our not the same as yours and I express it ... it is not to belittle you nor anyone else .... and I know alot of old timers that have hunted this state for generations that feel the baiting thing is a joke too .... My opnion while it is mine is not only shared by me as yours is not just shared by you and as I sated many times if you do it good for you .... but I dopn't have to agree with it and those who don't agree with you do not need to patronized either .... So we will leave it at that

You will spin everything to your point of view and thats cool ... just kinda sad that so many hunters seem to think the only way they can hunt is to ambush conditioned prey ..... that they are feeding nutrients and food sources wich do not occure naturally in the area the deer are in ..... Maybe we need some Colby Coues ..... Game Hauler and desert bull can make sure they are corn fed and they can keep a trough of beer for them to drink and every once in a while if they can catch them give em a massage to get a nice even fat distribution just the way we do our colby beef ....

OK all YOU MASTER BAITERS are right .... Guess I need to change my ways and beliefs !!!!

I am still waiting to hear from one of you guys that are so pro baiting why do so many of you same guys bash and lessen the validity of a hunt in a High Fenced Ranch that has feeders food troughs and controlled water sources... Why Do so many seem to give them such a less than respectful Stigma... Think it would be interesting to know why is it any different ????

On another note I think the practice of creating BAIT HOLES is in a big part why we see alot of the BS over this is my spot or area to hunt and creates many of the issues that take place with hunters every year when everyone gets ready to drop the drawers and piss on the four corners surrounding the dinner tables they have been setting up the entire off season .... I understand the work they must go through to do it and in no way do I think keeping the dinner table ready and full til the deer or bulls last supper would be an easy task .... but it gives insight why so many get so territorial about their areas and almost makes sense on why they do it .... But it still does not make it right ...... I feel AZone and others point out these are the differences that divide us and manytimes makes hunting a little less fun .....

With a call you are not altering his natural behavior it is the games natural behaivor that MAY bring him in it is his same senses that will send him away when he feels something is not right .... The games natural behaivor makes it possible for a call or rattling to work at certain times(the sounds exist at those times in their range) .... but not everytime .... however when you put sweet corn out in the middle of the forest where it will never grow and especially with molasses mixed on it and keep refilling it or salt mineral licks in areas that they were non existant in nature .... the day in day out feeding and having that now made available will change the feeding habits and feeding patterns to one that is highly predictable .... With what percent do you know if .... when .... and where a buck or bull is going to come in with a call or rattling I gaurantee it is not a fraction as predictable as a recorded bait hole that will bring game in repeatedly .... you may have to wait days in that same spot but 9 out of 10 times those deer or elk will make it back unless something changes big such as a predator or a hunter already snuffing them out ..... with that call you are not forming a predictable pattern throughout an entire off season and setting up your blind to shoot em at your supper table..... Thanks for playing devils advocate and I see where you were going and agree it is very grey and as with AZone I agree on everyone is different but the diversity shows that there are many ways to hunt and whatever happens some may have to adapt.....

Jason I know I have watched old Bartta with his longbow.... and I am not trying to say that what I feel is right for everyone out there but In my definition of fairchase it comes to my beliefs that any thing that uses the deers own senses to modify his behavior to a predictable one by us i.e. using bait and attractants is not fair chase .... I do not agree that things we use to imrove ourself and improving our own odds such as scopes w/ turrets or mapping your yardage out to 1000 yards or masking our own sent takes away from it being fair chase ... I think, And this is just personally me that if I use anything to alter the GAMES NORMAL BEHAIVORS it lessens the experience of the hunt ... Like I said it is legal And I don't have issue for anyone who uses bait it is just not my thing and a change in the laws would not effect me or hurt me in any way .... I guess I still have that unaswered question though on why if so many feel so strongly on this and not having it taken away why do so many of the same guys shun Those who choose to do the same exact thing on those high fenced ranches .... I don't quiet get that ... Again on any game with a home range of only a couple miles on a 50+ square mile ranch the fences would be a non issue except on the extreme outer edges .... Just how I see it and not in no way taking away from what and how you do it

AZone I did say in my post that it had sarcasm, but I guess often that goes over some heads... I have no issue with you or anyone using Bait or Cams but trying to compare the use of Bait to the advancements in weapons such as bows and rifles and scopes is beyond ridiculous... The weapons used to Take game do not Lure them in ... They do not Modify the animals normal behaivors based on an outside influence to try to increase your odds by putting out a buffet table for them to come to every couple days... And if it is no big deal why do so many on this site and in general have an issue with the Huge High fenced Ranch Hunts ... Why does a 50+ Square mile ranch gain the stigma of less than hunting because they modify the animals behaivors to feed from troughs and water from specific sources ??? A deer with a home Range of 1-2 miles will almost never be effected by a fence that is 10 miles away and knowing that setting up your buffet tables in the middle of a herds Home range now becomes no diffrent ... Were DO we Draw the line .... I draw the Line at FAIR CHASE .... I will not hunt a high fenced ranch ... I will not use bait ... ANd if I ever chose to use a camera it would be used in a short span and without attractants to just give insight on what the deers NORMAL BEHAVIORS are at that time ... So don't Get Confused and Don't be So quick to Assume that someone who feels that FAIR CHASE is the purest form of hunting is ANTI.... If you choose to set up a buffet and sit up and shoot a deer at the dinner table you set then good for you... I have no problem with that ... but I feel it is very hard to compare it to a fair chase scenerio where you on the deers terms without influencing the most fundemental senses they have of eating .... Chris Just because something is legal does not make it the most ethical ...

Looks Good but I have kept staring at it trying to see the hidden picture and I just can't make it out ... It's not a sail boat is it???

Why do they call them Honey Holes ???? Seems like Salt and Corn seems to be what brings em in and keeps em coming back ... Does Honey actually work for deer or maybe that is just bear ... Just wondering Take away the trail cams... the bait... and cut the number of tags down to more realistic numbers and see what the herds look like in three years ... Everything those critters need is all ready out there and giving them treats to lure them to your honey hole is almost on the lines of the not so nice Icecream man luring children to his his honey hole ... Don't Think I would call that Hunting just my 2 cents with a small dose of sarcasm

From everything I have ever read Coues water in conjuction with feeding times usually at least twice a day in average to cold temps ... With the most of these times being early am and and in the PM .... But the Studies I have read from have also stated more sightings with mid day watering during warmer than seasonal temperatures .... I have also read unlike Mullies... Coues do depend more on water sources where as mule deer can achieve most their water needs through their browsing on the lands grasses and vegetation ... Just what I have read and much of what I have seen in the field seems to mesh

If A bull Jumps a fence to the other side(and they do alot in a few units) your right he is no longer a rez bull...lol... The only difference if you get that lucky in your timing, is the savings of about $21,879.50 on a 375" or larger bull

Well if you look in and listen to the Video you can narrow the unit down pretty easy ....that is to at least 2 units ....but I still hold to the unit I mentioned there is a reason that it looks like a certain type bull .... Maybe cause they only have to hop a fence line... and many do.... many do seen em tons of times and lots of monsters ......

If you know the carrier of the service they will locate the owner for you ... My dads 2 day old phone was lost in 24b and the person finding it turned it in to Verizon and they contacted him to pick it up working pefect .... The guy who found it could not use any of the numbers since the phone was dead... But there is a name attached to every phone so it should not be to hard ...

IA's dont buy health insurance now and wont buy in the future .... They go to the ER's and end up with state sponsered treatment .... The constitution does not allow us the luxury of denying them treatment no matter what is written in any upcoming Bill ... That is what the Lie heard around the world was about ... The Supreme court will not allow for the non treatment of IA's as they are there to uphold the constitution... So how ever they spin it Illeagles will get treatment under a Federal plan as they do now under state sponsered aid ... IA's are not going to buy healthcare and in my opinion any person in knowledge of a law being broken is an accomplice in that breach of the law and just playing stupid and making laws that do not require proof of citizenship means the US goverment is an accomplice of Law being Broke as are the idiots putting out caches of food and water to help these law breakers .... PLAUSABLE DENIABILTY???? or just Stupidity that is the question ... The funniest thing about it is the hardest working guy in the country enforcing the laws of immigration gets no respect we need more people like sherriff JOE sending these IA's home ... A citizen that crys unfare because of racial profiling when asked to show citizenship is only doing so cause they have the knowledege of people here illeagaly .... A proud Citizen of the US(no matter the race) would just Show the proof and thank the person for doing the JOB their taxes are paying for... just my 2 cents

When Clinton went into office there were increased sales in many types of guns and ammo and some small shortages but not to the level we have seen With Obama ..... And Obama alone is not the concern for most that have been running out and stocking up ... It is the Total democratic control of the House the Senate along side with him .... People realize that now there are many seasoned politicians still in both house and senate that were key in authoring Bills that had to do with 2nd amendment rights during the Clinton administration ... The only to go through the Process being the Brady Bill .... If I remember right the period of time between Clinton signing The Brady bill and when it went into law accounted for the largest increase in sales of guns and ammo during his administration.... Clinton is gone but many of the liberal opponents of 2nd amendment rights thatt remain in their seats of house and senate have been waiting for this type of control with this type of chief .... My bet is that if republicans held control of either house or senate the increases would have been much less and if they had control of both probably not at all... but the complete liberal shift is what drove these sales not Obama alone.... That is just my opinion though

Article that hit on AP just a brief overview of the Bullet Shortages going on .... The last quote at the End is great http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090923/ap_on_...s_ammo_shortage

NatureBoy... deer like all living things are going to adapt (just look at Red rabbits post with the desert bighorns chewing grass right close to concrete and asphalt) ... The thing I learned in my time in 32 is that the terrain and limited access are a much larger obsticle to hurdle than thinking of how dry it is .... looks can be Deceiving when it comes to water in many southern units including 32 .... Such as that River that runs north through the unit and often looks dry in long stretches .... Dig down 10 inches and see how dry it is ... The question with the drought in my opinion lies more on the vegetation that is available for feeding (coues like all white tail have to feed at at certain times to keep the biological process going)..... Tanks that rely on rain and runoff that are dry plus low vegetation most likely means fewer deer ..... Kinda sucks for road hunters but hey not many roads run to the best water sources.... that unit is bubbling with water even now, but you are going to have to walk more than a 1/4 mile from a road most likely to find it ....the other thing about those areas where the water bubbles from the ground is that a higher water table usually means more things growing those guys like to eat ...... Guess What I am trying to say is adapt ..... Find you an area with some Bubblers ( I hear thats what Yankees fans call water fountains) .... Look for those things green they like to eat and if in the area you have some good slopes littered with large areas of deep cat claws or ocotillio find a glassing spot and be patient .... At least thats what I would do