dave

Too bad some of my favorite hunting ground is closed. With this being a National thing, we should be playing defense 2 miles into their country. Would that wake their army up? 400 rush in, 300 get by, the second line is one mile into their country. 300 rush in, 225 get by, the third line is the border. No one gets by. Imagine that?

No one challenged me so I guess it is not a face-off

CHD has now made his entrance to AZOD. I suspect he should be famous soon. You all go read his bragging there. The AZOD server is not capable of handling such mega pixels.

2006 bow test just before they are extinct. 2007's coming out now. Let the tests begin again.

My gun range at Sabino was left behind. My archery range at Laquachi was left behind. My son found other things to chase. Time changes many things. We as hunters lose most of the time. Time will tell. Good luck on your hunts Bobbvo. You won't mind me reminding you about the past if your gov. wins will you?

No problemo, without the fence to guide them, the blue tank folks will be issuing Garmins to them in espanole. Just to set the record straight, Audsley is my friend and I was giving him a hard time. Not too many guys work as hard as he has for our hunting future. I wish there were more like him.

In defense of Tyson, I agree with everything you just said. Science may say that Arizonas habitat can support 40,000 elk. Science may say that with predator management in antelope areas, Arizona may increase their antelope herds 10 fold. Science can tell you this can take place but how will it really happen? Who decides if it should happen? When you say you are done posting on this thread, does that mean you are done with science, politics, religion, hunting or what? If you came here to hunt in the first place, how will you work to preserve that portion of what you want to do? Is it a personal science? Most hunters just want to hunt and be left alone. That is how all the other groups in this world come in and start kicking our butts. You will find that the folks in the preservationist groups are way more religious than hunters, way more passionate, dedicated and have a lot of time on their hands. Whoops, almost forgot to mention...for some reason ranchers know how to grow animals??? I don't know where they all got their sciece degree? For some reason they make water for their animals. For some reason they make sure their animals are fed. For some reason??? This is pretty intence sciece right here.

Bobbvo, I had forgotten you did not like 106. Your jab about a previous Governor and the Chilton’s seems like a chapter out of the Sierra Club Handbook. I don’t want to trade jabs with you, I am too much of a bigot and way too grouchy for that. Here is some of my opinion for you to think about. Science is important and should be what all decisions are based on. Science can also be used to support any goal someone has. Science can be used to reduce animal numbers, increase animal numbers, reduce certain species, increase certain species, etc.. Who decides what the goal is? I think it is wrong to have Scientists set the goals. The Department employs biologists who can apply the science to the goals established. I think it can be a bad thing to have wildlife biologists on the Commission directing the Department. This is what we are getting into now with the last two Commissioners being wildlife biologists. It can very easily become a situation where they micro manage the Department to accomplish a personal agenda and have very little concern for what the public wants because they are the Scientists. Science and goals are two different things. If you look at the new Strategic Plan you will not see any guidelines, goals or science. I really don’t know how to improve the system we have now. From my perspective Commissioners that are responsive to the people that have financially supported the Department for many years are good Commissioners. That would include hunters, fishermen, etc. not the Animal Defense League, Sierra Club, Earth First etc.. In the same way, a Governor that appoints good Commissioners is a good Governor. Just another note: I have read studies by scientists that show some species of wildlife flourish in areas where grazing takes place. Some species flourish in areas where there is no grazing. I guess it can be used both ways to find a balance. One of the highlights of the last few years for me was to see the Chilton’s sue the Center of Biological Diversity. Fantastic!!!

Looks like NeoLaquachi and bobbyo probably will or have already voted yes for prop 106. If you guys have had been to Commission meetings you would have already seen the ground hunters are giving up. I don't think either of you have a clue. Your in good company, our current Commission appointed by your gov. voted 4-1 to support prop. 106. Another plus in you guys favor is that the Commission and the Department would consider most of the comments made on this site by hunters or in Commission meetings by Hunter Groups as being "The Vocal Minority". NOT THE MAJORITY according to them. You may get your wish. When hunters can't see the light of day, we are screwed.

I don't own one of those bows so I personally have not studied the riser. I also have not heard about problems with the XT (don't know if it is the same riser or not) I do know guys that have had problems with the regular Switch-a-bent. The area just above the hand hold is cut out very thin to achieve center shot. The riser is long and the center takes the most stress. I think most risers are bent to some degree. Some risers are bent more.

Audsley, You have to admit that when you are doing something the illegals want (removing fence) that they should leave you alone right? Hey, since they don't want a fence, how about them rolling it up for us? Could we call them volunteers? I am sure they will all voluteer to be present at the trash pick-up also. I just find it curious how anyone could think that someone could exaggerate this situation. Maybe we should all vote for Napolitano, Giffords & Griljavelina since they will win anyway. Kinda like the Bears beat the Cardnals last night.

I just weighed my custom shoot-through with #8 spirals and limb savers at 4lbs.4-3/4ozs.. I guess 4lbs.6-1/2ozs. ain't that bad.

Glad to see they made a change in the cam. The Zepher did not suit me at all after shooting spirals with a 65% let off. Spirals are hard all the way with a very smooth let off, very short valley and a hard wall. The Zephers cammed over so drastic you would lose the arrow off the rest in a hunting situation. I see no reason why they cannot make a cam with the same power curve on this bow design. Maybe that is more what the new cam is like. The other area I would need them to improve in for me to be interested in one was the mass weight. I read on AT where they supposedly cut 3.5 ounces off of the XL which should make it around 4lbs. 6-1/2ozs.. Still on the heavey side for me. I guess they want a solid riser and not have to replace bent ones every day like Matthews does with the switch-a-bent. Can't wait to pull and shoot a Vectrix XL.

We all know it is important to vote for the right things. This gov. has given us the last 4 commissioners we have. I do not want this gov. giving me any more. I have already voted for the right gov. If this gov. is still here, we will have a Commission you cannot believe, heck, we already do. We have 4 that don't have a clue. One wants to kill an antelope with a cigar hangin out his mouth, one has killed most everything and has a cigar hangin out his mouth, one is still tring to find a way to give everything to all the animal rights people and say he has killed more elk than anyone. One has no clue. One is a good one. Last one we may have for a while. If this gov. has four more years, hunting is screwed. Why hasn't some one thought of that???

Bruce, I sent you a PM. The wife and I just finished voting on or early ballots. Hope all you folks get out and vote. I hope polls are BS. Our votes do not agree with this poll or Mr. Napolitano's poll. He might have to marry a man now and also speak English. The guest worker program may include all the illegals picking up the trash they brought here.

Larry, You sould have said that the archery deer tags will be put to a draw or that everyone will have to choose their weapon before applying for a tag. Then some hunter may listen??? I kinda like the new forest ideas, park in Phoenix and hike the rest the way.

Bruce, Joe voted no.

all the retired people will be at the Oct. 20th Commission meeting. Most are scheduled on Fridays and they try like heck to get it all done before any working people can show up on Saturday. Then they take November off to recoop. Then the Department hands them 50 changes in December they all smile and vote yes exept one. You know, the 4-1 Commission.

Glad we got that cleared up. Any chance I will see you next month?

glad I got you over the hump We don't have to accept this. So what if one or two things are better than what we have now. If you accept this, there is a butt load of baggage that will come along with it. VOTE NO! and work for a better plan.

Dave I don't mean to be an a-hole, but what the heck does that mean. You must never hunt in October. Also I think the deer, elk and other critters would be fine without some more management from humans. Bob It seems you edited your post. You should really check into the CBD. It may be right up your alley. Your right, after being born here and hunting all my life, I may have missed something, doubt it was in October.

Protecting our land is what we should do bobbyo, selling it or buying into one of these props is a wrong thing. We do need to come up with a good management plan for our state trust land. I feel like it is a cottontail ran over in the road with 50,000 vultures sitting around waiting to grab it. Hold the bus. Get a better plan. Don't sell off Arizona. Look at the big picture here folks!!! We have been under the rule of Mr. Napalitano and 60% (according to his poles, support him). Just as this debate has devoloped, you can see that there is division in how many view things. As I have always witnessed, hunters will debate the size of the horn while the mouse carrys it off.

At one time Arizona was a Samson. But then came so many Delilah's. Hey, when your eyes are blinded I guess you need some more wilderness to feel around in.

The lion thing was a couple years ago. The asset that Arizona has that the whole world wants is it's land. Once you sell the land, it is gone. We have to come up with better ideas than prop 105 or 106 of how to treat a resourse we can never recover if we sell it. Anyone that thinks more wilderness is a good thing has not researched the amount of wilderness Arizona already has. Wilderness is a good thing to an extent. We have more wilderness than we need. We need to find a way to manage the remaining land we have and prop 105 and 106 does not do that.

Mark, I think a good rule of thumb is to see what action groups take rather than to just trust what you read on their website. Living in Phoenix you really don’t get as good a feel for these things as living in Tucson where most of these groups have chose to congregate. Remembering back when we had a little fiasco in Sabino Canyon, their leader then was removed from the Game & Fish Regional office by the authorities once. He has been on the news many times and the news papers always go to him for an opinion. I hear he has moved on to a new job somewhere now. I don’t remember any of these events being about any endangered species. Sorry I don’t have any documentation to give you. Possibly you could surf the web, check into what groups and people were involved in getting lion hunting banned in California. See if they are connected in any way with any groups in Arizona now??? If you are serious about looking into this, you will find that most preservationist groups claim to be conservationists. They claim to not be against hunting and want to join with hunters in conserving our resources. If you look at the ACTION they take, you will find that they are ANTI-HUNTING. If you find that this group supports predator management as a way of controlling the loss of endangered species, let me know, I must have missed it. The only predator they want to control is man. We are also dealing with other boderline groups, we have one Commissioner that has voted to ban Sandhill Crane hunting. They are hardly endangered and are highly regulated by the federal government. Now we have four Commissioners voting to support a prop. that very well may lead to preservation of animals. I hope they did not know what they were voting for and were just going along with the "feel good" thing. I doubt it. I think we are in trouble. When the train runs through your house, maybe you will wake up, drive down the road a ways and start ripping up some track.