dave

O.K., I will cut the sarcasm and just state some facts as they were presented. Elk numbers were reported to be around 35,000 in the early 90’s. The model the Game & Fish is supposed to support is 25,000. It was reported last April at the hunt set meeting that elk numbers were around 17,000. Question: Do elk and mule deer eat the same food given that there is food available? Mule deer in southern Arizona do not compete with elk. What is wrong with this picture? What is being done to correct it?

Well, I stood up at the April hunt set meeting to say something about javelina and was all alone there. Since I don’t hunt them, I haven’t counted the number of tags they have annually overall in all weapon groups. You might be surprised to see there is enough tags (opportunity) now to wipe them out. I did read the public comment sent by Tice to support previous studies conducted by respectable biologists but it didn’t carry any weight with the newbee’s. I think the next best thing will be the Commission voting to approve the Department selling DVD’S of animals on the endangered list. They could pull up videos from years ago when mule deer lived in Arizona. With the waiting list I am sure they will have for the new videos, they will also implement a online credit card method for paying for these video’s. Soon to follow, you will be able to buy bonus points to advance your position in line to buy the videos. If this works out, maybe they will follow the model set by folks in Mexico and offer tags based on high your fence is and how much feed you can force down a coues throat to make his antlers bigger.

AZP&Y, Although your idea would save millions of dollars, I am afraid the mere mention of it might get you thrown in prison or executed. I was thinking of Rocky Mountain sheep and Gould’s turkey. bowhuntinmaniac, That is why I think number nine above is important.

I am with you now bobbyo.

We have 12 big game species here in Arizona. We have numerous small game species. We have opportunity up the yingyang. Lets make our hunting fair and encourage folks to participate in the opportunity we have. We have lost some opportunity from the lion hunt season, trapping, what is next?

You are right on Mr. Gabe. 8. Certain successful hunt applicants must wait a period of time before applying again. This will really not make a % impact much on anyone's chance to draw but it will make it FAIRER!!! This will result in a loss of revenue to the Department from folks that may not apply because they will not be eligible. Ironically you should all hear Rico's argument..."this would not affect your chances to draw enough to change anything. If we stop people from applying, they will just be replaced by people that quit applying and so the numbers will be the same". The people quit applying because they were not drawn. So now, with all their passion for hunting they will start applying again. Anyone tired of this??? Can anyone see someone must be making money from application fees??? Can anyone spell MONY? Although I agree with the antler point limit idea in respect to harvesting mature animals, that will never fly, nor is it practical. 9. Count the first two choices of the application when determining how to split the pie on hunts affected by the pie allocation process. It is not FAIR to count only the first choice when many harvest animals from their second choice. What we have now is O.K., but we could make it FAIRER and better.

You are right on Mr. Quimby. Hope we can all talk about this again 4 years from now. Bill, I barely graduated high school but have watched this same pattern for many years. I guess my ciphering don't quite meet up with the general public. All my neighbors are retired under 60 years old. One bunch from New Jersey, one bunch from Austria, etc.. They bitch at me for not putting red crushed rock in my yard like they have with the little barrel cactus with yellow thorns. They have no appreciation for the natural beauty of our desert. Well, I guess they did once; they took a drive through the monument. They like Sedona, the Grand Canyon etc... They vote and they are on the on the home owners association. They are pretty smart; they don't come around when I am shooting my bow.

1. Implement mandatory survey reporting by hunters. You must give a specimen from the harvested animal or surrender the unused tag or you will not be eligible to hunt the next year. 2. Establish an agreed upon model (I thought we did) of how we would survey animals. 3. Require that a designated representative from hunter groups approves each survey of every species in every game management unit. 4. Require the Commissioners to enforce the established model or be removed. 5. Require this to be stated in the 2012 strategic plan for 2012 before they vote and accept the limpy proposal Dec. 9th.. 6. Establish a new method of selecting Commissioners that is decided by the people that pay for game management. I believe those people fish and hunt. 7. Prohibit ballot initiatives that affect game management from people that do not hunt or fish. I could go on, what do you guys think?

The "status quo" for the past 6 years is good? Where have I been?

People say we are fighting a war we can’t win across the sea. They can’t see the war we are losing here. We may not be able to win the war across the sea. We will lose the war here. Just as America can not see across the sea, they also cannot see in front of their face. I just got served my second notice in the mail that “YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW” from the U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE, U.S. CENSUS BUREAU They want to know what I eat, what I pay for my water bills, electricity, what a crock. I was born here, all of my records are public and the IRS knows exactly where I live. I completed the 2000 census. We got 8-12 million illegals running rampant and they want to know what my frigging water bill is??? How much money are they spending on this? Will you guys come visit me in prison after I tell them to stick it? Maybe I should shut up and let some of you in the know tell me why this is happening.

I have two different friends of mine come upon bear scratching around high up in dead trees. No one had spooked them, they were just up there looking for something. Had another friend of mine get woke up one morning when a bear came into camp to check him out in his sleeping bag. When my friend got out of the bag in his tighty-whities, the bear got scared spitless and treed right away. You never know what the scariest thing is you will ever see until you are face to face with it This all happened in unit 27.

I will never forget the time I was crawling through the grass stalking these antelope when a lightning bolt hit close by. Good thing I was laying on the ground in the grass so the antelope couldn't see the affect it had on me. None of them even flinched. Go figger?

There are many factors that would make an animal jump the string. How alert the animal is and what they are wired on, smell, noise, what they see. I believe the further you are from the animal the better your chances are the animal will not jump the string. I believe an animal will jump your string more often at 15 yards than 45 yards. Can you tell when an animal knows something is wrong but hasn’t jumped yet? They are ready to jump but don’t know exactly what to do yet? Can you tell when an animal may see you and know something is wrong but is just curious? If the animal can smell you but can’t see you, they are wired. If the animal can hear you but not see you, they are wired. If the animal can see, smell, hear and identify you but has not ran, will he jump? If the animal does not see you, hear you, smell you but hears a noise, what will he do? I don’t think this is a question of if bowhunting is ethical for any certain animal, I think it is a question what do you do in a certain situation with a certain animal. What do you guys think?

I will have to start minding my manners.

Looks very similar to PSE geometry with the short limbs.

I had a couple friends get carried away in one of these conversations one time. I guess it got me on edge and a little carried away also. I have so much respect for the man that I jumped too soon. Sorry about that guys. I am impressed by your posts. You guys are great.

I don't know the man at all. I have never met him. Hope that answers your question.

I hope he is doing well.

If I every meet Randy and get the chance to talk to him, I will ask him how he is doing.

I agree. That is why I would never shoot a Gila Woodpecker.

Randy Graff tryed that and committed political suicide. You can't hang the Presidents pic U/D and gain respect from your core supporters. How do we end up with 20 ballot initiatives and everyone is scrambling to find out what they mean. This state is being attacked by interests that want to buy this state. Prop 105 and 106 would have let that happen. I am hoping that guys like Audsley get on here and tell us how not to let that happen. I am telling you guys that after what I saw with the 204 thing, these folks are encouraged and will be going for other things. You will see in 2008 a ballot initiative for banning lion hunting, maybe more. Maybe we need to start something that says no one can sell our land.

No worrys az4life, Most all of the voting places had signs in espanole so all could find there way. If you can't read espanole, you are expected to know where you are going. I am very interested in the state drawing new lines where the demos and the reps are equally distributed in districts. It won't help my neihbors from New Jersey to find the poll but at least we could call their pot an american name and not confuse it with a hispanic name such as maryjane.

Audsley and others, I am curious because I don't know, what is the process now for how the State decides if it will sell State Trust Land to someone?

I was not trying to compair prop 204 to banning lion hunting. What I would like to point out is that the same types of people and groups that supported 204 are the same groups that want to ban lion hunting. It is about what these groups want to accomplish. I had no idea the public would respond the way they did.

Rembrant, I was astounded by the prop 204 vote. With this kind of public opinion here in Arizona, I can guaranty you they will at least have a ballot initiative in 2008 to ban lion hunting.