TLH

I believe John is asking deer hunters specifically because he does know about the numbers and how many people help. He may be asking about deer hunters because there was a project for the AES this past weekend and there were over 90 people there to help. Most deer projects have less than 20 people who show up and most of those folks are the regulars. There are a lot of good things happening behind the scenes that none of know about because we don't care to have that pat on the back that some like. I know of several folks that wear out water trailers each year dumping water into water holes and others who spend a ton of time checking water catchments to make sure the floats work and that there is no dabries in the water. I also know of a few folks who go up and check fences for ranchers so we all can have access on that ranch to hunt--sure, they might want to hunt that ranch too but the folks i know never stipulate to the ranchers that they want sole access. Some people do not want to belong a a group or an org. and a lot them do what they do because they just want to be a part of the wild and they do not like the politics involved with groups. The bottom line is times are tough--i spent 60 bucks just driving up and back from a meeting this weekend and then i spent another ten bucks just to eat--true, i would have to eat at home but it would not have cost ten bucks. People are losing their jobs, bills are piling up and the economy isn't getting any better--it will not get any better anytime soon and unless you are one of the lucky ones who have money set aside you probably will not be able to even go hunting much less spend a lot of money on drive time and other costly items to help with projects. That all said--we could all do better--maybe plan a weekend with the family and spend one day helping with a project and a day with the family fishing, hiking or anything else and you can accomplish two important tasks in one weekend. Just a suggestion.

Tough unit for access but if you spend the time looking into the public areas you will find a good buck or two. The antelope on the cover of the Arizona Game And Fish Regs booklet is from public land in 19A--he would have been 90" if not for the broke tip.

PM sent.

DUG, If they took the money you probably have a tag--congrats!!

OK, i went into the regs and read it again--you have to pay upfront for antelope, deer, and a few other critters but for elk you did not. Now i feel better. Congrats to all of you who have drawn a tag and who will draw a tag!!

The best part about the lop is it takes the torque out of your draw. lots of times you will draw the bow back with the release on the string and there will be a little torque to one side of the other and that will mess with your accuracy more than you would ever think. Get the loop and you will be happy.

Hit it for antelope. $270.00 bucks. I am guessing they pull the funds to see if you have them and if you don't get drawn they send them back?? Not sure but i do know the regulation said they would charge the full amount this year which they did not do in the past.

They hit mine last month--i thought they hit all of the applications early like they did here in AZ--or is it different for the NM resident group??

Probably some type of injury to him either during the growing stage or even if he was shot the year before by a hunter??

Jim, My buddy Charlie would like to talk to you about these. He says he wants them. He will email you.

Doug, i hate you for posting this!!! Oh how i have always wanted a Kimber in that cal. with a "S" scope on top of it--just don't have the bucks right now to buy her!!! Oh the sadness i feel right now!

One: he made a mistake by demanding. Two: He made a mistake asking this to a person that knows the area better than he does. Three: he needs to read what public land means. Four: probably not the best thing to write when the game and fish are trying their best to shut the "baiting" down. Gino, i would call him and start the conversation out as a couple hunters would--if his attitude dictates that you turn sour i would just let him know that if you decide to hunt the tank that you will hunt the tank and so will about a thousand other guys. People like this are the cause of all of our problems. Once we all can get along as hunters we may be able to fight the fight a little bit better. Call him Gino--he left the number so that left the door open. Let us know how it goes.

Kids are our future--do you really think we old farts will be around to fight the fight? If we do not spend the time and money on our younger hunters we will find ourselves left out in the cold very soon. The anti's have recruitments that are very young--the Disney mentality is easier to sell than taking a kid hunting and spending the time with them to get them hooked on hunting. Tell me if this isn't true because i would love to hear your take on it. What is easier--take a kid to the zoo--to the movies or get them out in the field and get them interested in hunting. I know what it takes as i have raised a couple kids and also raised a couple of nieces and nephews all of which are strong believers in the hunting heritage. With out kids you would never understand the accomplishment of this task. (i also have a 3.5 year old grandson that will soon baptized in the hunt) The ADA has to generate money to pay for all of the projects and the camps that they have each year--if they do not generate the funds they will cease to exist--i know for a fact that they have almost a half a million dollars set aside this year and next to do southern unit projects in this state--the Kaibab study has cost a ton of money and it has yielded invaluable information that will change the course of the way the game and fish will manage that herd--if not for the ADA this would have never happened. I am not sure where you get the AKA but i would suspect you have been out of touch with the ADA for a long time--you need to get back into the group and see what is really going on before you try and discredit the only true deer association in this state. Just my two pennies

Pretty simple fix to all of this is teleconferencing--this would get more people to attend the meeting via phone and that would get more and more involvement into all the groups. I know that the AES actually have this in their meetings now. The ADA meets at The University of Phoenix and it is always on a Tuesday night which is a work night for most of us--there are times when the meeting goes past 10 pm and for those that get up early to go to work it just doesn't work out for them.

To add to Amanda's statement--this is also a way to help the deer herds in this state and help an awesome group such as the ADA continue to improve habitat and to engage in scientific studies that will help grow a healthier herd through the state. if you have not picked up a couple of these tickets you really should--after all it is a win-win situation!

It is yet another frivolous law suit that these morons have filed. The cat was captured by biologists and had testing done on him for future records and information on these great cats so that the game and fish could find a way to keep them around for a while. the old cat was on his last leg when he was captured (probably why he was captured as he was probably too old or sick to catch his own food) and now these buffoons want to sue the department. I think i heard it best when this group was called the center of Illogical Diversity. Too bad this bunch can't spend money on something that would actually help these cats instead of taking money from the one group that is trying to keep them here in Arizona.

I have shot the Shocky Gold for about a year--i used to use the triple 7 and i can tell you that i get a better burn and a lot cleaner shot with the Shocky pellet. I shoot max load in my Knight KRB and i get some very good groups with consistency. I also use a .50 cal. 250 grain Shock wave T/C bullet. I might have to try the Shocky Gold powder and see if it makes a difference. I can never get a good pattern using much of anything else in my muzzy.

It only depends on what you have seen in the unit. If these are the best two then you have two choices--walk with out a buck or shoot and be happy with a smaller buck. If the first buck is 17" he will probably hit the magical 82" mark but if he is anything less he may not break book minimum. I would have to see the picture now that he has grown out but i would bet he isn't much bigger than 82"--reason i wouldn't think this is because i have been in that unit looking--think i have seen this buck and know that he lacks mass and prongs. Tim, PM me on my board if you get the chance--there is a buck you need to find and i need to tell you where he is.

Kenny, Why not unit 8, or 21 or 6A?? Those are much closer to Wickenburg and they all hold good deer. True, i think the 21 hunt is Oct.--haven't looked at the regs yet. Oh, and don't forget unit 23 and 22 for W/T--all good areas. The south is great for deer but if you live up north why not stay closer to home and hunt those units?

My friends son shot a nice big buck with his bow but being new to the hunting world he cut the bucks throat--lessen learned! He is now looking for a Coues cape-- Any one have one to sell??? let me know and i will get Greg in contact with you to work out the details.

I probably have known Tyler longer than most on here. I can say he is honest hard working young man that has found a love with his hunting and with his dogs. He has stated he has a lot to learn and i am pretty sure anyone who starts something has a lot to learn. Bottom line we all have to start somewhere before we get to where some others are at. I am not sure if i know Huntem but i can see he is concerned about the overall issue with new comers in the lion hunting and dog world--he probably has seen some horror stories from the past but just because you have seen bad things by some doesn't mean that all new dog men will be that way. I would bet that if your client wanted to shoot that 45 pound cat you all would let them shoot it--the client pays the bills if you are a guide and if they do not have an opportunity to hunt more than a day or two and they want to kill a lion the very worst that happened is he took a lion out of the food chain. Tyler--you are a good friend and i think you are doing very well--keep up the good work with your crew and cousin and don't let the talk get you down. Huntem--give the guy a chance and see what comes out of it--he may just become a good friend and fellow hounds man.

Tyler, i was just giving ya the biz--heck if i don't wear a hat i get burned all over--no hair up there any more. I need you to email me your price list as i have some folks that are wanting to do a lion hunt with your pups.

PM sent--very interested.

Dang Tyler--you turned cowboy on us!! LOL!! Really though buddy--nice job on the cat!

Done--