TLH

I am just saying LOL!!!!

I am thinking he is almost done--no bulbs on the tops or any of the tines. he is still a good looking bull.

Do you have a picture of it?? Or a link to the description??

Yup, that is what he is and they are great snakes to have around. They eat rodents--bugs and other snakes!! He is your friend!!

I will take Mir--i think Brock will do his bull rush and get caught with one of Mir's rights. I just think Brock will be way to pumped up and he will make a mistake.

Why would you want to shoot a little biddy muley like that when you could go somewhere else and smack a 170" to 190" buck!! Ha--i know, you are talking about Coues deer i am just funnin a little. personally i like the option B for me but for my son in laws i would take option A until they get their hunting hide on. It depends like Mike said whether or not a person has hunted and have been successful in their hunting skills. When the grandson gets old enough we will hunt in areas that have lots of game just so he can see things through out the day and then after he gets a couple deer or whatever under his belt we will move into the secluded areas so he can understand the optimal hunting experience--hunting way back in there with nothing but a bed roll and a tarp for cover and glassing the deep dark canyons that the old boys like to live in (by this time he will have to carry my old butt up and down the hills though!)

It started when the USO sued the department for more than 10% of the tags we give to NR. It is a shame that that one person could change the way the game and fish has to do business. If the law suit would have stuck (which it didn't after Senator Reid did the only good thing he has ever done and made the states in control of all big game animals and wildlife with in their state borders) but when he gave that rule change to Pres. Bush and "W" signed it USO lost their butts on everything they spent to fight the AZ game and Fish to get more tags--unfortunately it cost the game and fish a lot of money that they and the state did not have to spend. The 9th Circus court actually upheld the suit and found in favor of USO but Reid killed them dead with that one little good dead he did.

terry-"you have to remember that the only way you can increase the non-res hunts is to increase the res hunts-"- Actually Gary it is a commerce law not something that our game and fish instituted that keeps this to the amount you can charge out of state hunters compared to instate. But all that said i can understand the frustration from all of this "change" we are having and i know it is very hard for everyone out there right now.

Brian Wakeling sent this to me this morning. He would like to try and clarify what this packet is and wanted to insure to you all that the tags will not increase in cost. The guides license on the other hand is still up in the air as far as i can tell. Terry: Seen some information on The Arizona Hunter and got some calls of confusion today. You may wish to share this information on the site. FYI: The Department is not looking at fee increases. This started as a fairly benign effort by our Law Branch Chief Gene Elms in sending out a reminder to the guides with a statute attached. What Gene sent out was a copy of the current statute to remind guide’s of their responsibilities under existing statute. That statute also places the upper limit on the amount that we can charge for a variety of things like licenses and tags. This statute was passed in 2005 when we were considering a number of things, such as differing fees for “premier” deer or elk tags. Rules must be passed to implement statutes, and in the ensuing public comment and Commission process, the concept of charging more for the premier tags was left on the editing room floor. Article 1 rule, specifically R12-4-102 lists the current fees that the Commission charges for each license or tag. The fees can be equal to or less than that in statute, but cannot exceed that in statute. Despite the fact that we have the statutory authority to charge more for licenses and tags, there is no current move afoot to increase them. Article 1 has gone through the rule review phase required by statute. If not reviewed once every 5 years, rules will simply go away. But rulemaking is required to actually change a rule. No mention of a fee increase was included in the review phase, and the public would have know of it because the Commission has to approve the review report. The governor has placed a moratorium on rulemaking for most rules, and no action is occurring on Article 1 since January and cannot begin until after October 16. The governor could choose to again extend this moratorium, but we do not currently know if she will. Once we can again begin the rulemaking phase, it will probably take 3-6 months to develop a proposed rulemaking package to be shared with the Commission, after which a 30 public comment period will be open. It will then be a subsequent meeting before final rulemaking can come before the Commission. I do not expect fee increases to be part of this package, but I cannot promise that. It has not yet been discussed, but nothing is currently in the works nor is anything underhanded ongoing. Again, the statute allows for a higher maximum than is currently authorized through rule. It was the statute, not the rule that Gene sent out. Brian Wakeling Game Branch Chief 623-236-7385

I do but i am at work right now. i will post the contact info up for all of you once i get back to the house today.

Boycotting the department will only allow those who don't an easier shot at being drawn. The problem with any type of boycott is that there are those who will not and do not care about the way things are ran and they will still apply and be drawn for a tag while the folks who boycott stand in the streets and fight the fight. The packet i received shows a couple of things that i do not understand--one is that they discuss a premium type of license for deer and elk--i remember this when the department was proposing it and i can tell you that i was at the Arizona Game and Fish meeting at the fair grounds the year that USO sued the department and this was exactly what the residence wanted--a huge increase in tags fee's for 'premium hunts" but you have to remember that the only way you can increase the non-res hunts is to increase the res hunts--i believe it is 10% higher but i am not sure about that. If you look at the packet it is more like 100% higher than the res and i believe that is against the law. Now the guide license has me a little perplexed--even though this is a cap i do not remember reading anything about it being raised to $500.00 per year i do remember something in the range of $350.00 but that was it so where does the $500.00 come from and why isn't it posted somewhere besides on the guides packet that it is going up that high?? I truly love the game and fish department--they do a heck of a job on about 80% of what they do but the 20% that they screw up hurts them more than all the good they do combined. I think the problem is that the department is too separated by divisions--i truly do not think that they are all on the same page at times and i hope with the new director--and with the new commissioners this will be resolved. But as far as the non-res getting jammed--well, it takes us to get jammed first and then they have to get it a Little harder and no matter who you are that is not fun or funny! Bill, good analogy!!

This can not be accurate can it?? I mean he really just killed the goats for fun?? That can't be!! If you listen to the bleeding heart cat lovers they will tell you that they only kill for food and they only kill the weak and sick---this guy should have shot the cat the first time he saw one of his animals dead instead he wanted to make it part of his zoo and he got a lot of his animals killed because he started thinking with his heart instead of his mind.

There are a few folks who have signed on but the game and fish really hasn't pushed the idea to hard. I think it is a great way for a person to contribute with out being with a group and i can't think of a better way to spend a day out in my favorite area scouting and cleaning up a tank that i have adopted.

Doug? Who is this "one" you speak of!!??

Mike, That program was developed and started by the group from the AWF and the game and fish really took a liking to it. I can tell you that the WM of the unit would want you to go look at the catchment and report back to him anytime that you can. They would rather you not fix any problems with the tank but they would like for you to let them know what the problem is. They do like the idea that we clean out the catchment if it is getting a lot of debris in it or dead animals--but over all once you adopt a tank you can check it anytime you want--they need the greatest help during the summer months obviously.

I picked up three antelope--one bighorn and two Coues tickets. If nothing else i spent money on something i really love and that is helping animals.

I guess my biggest concern would be that they then would feel they have ownership in their way of doing things. I wouldn't be as concerned John but you and i both know that they have strength in numbers and in money and we as sportsman are fragmented and apathetic at best. If we all could join together and fight the fight i wouldn't not have one concern about the SC group or any other. I look at history a lot and what i see in sportsman is the same that happened to the Native Americans--if all tribes would have joined together and fought to keep their land then you and i wouldn't be having this conversation in what we know is the USA--the Native Americans had the numbers and they knew how to fight but they were too busy fighting each other to get the job done--sound familiar?? I understand what you are saying John and i do know what you and i would like to see from the non-hunting groups but until we as hunters actually join forces then we are not ready for the money and numbers that these groups will have. PS--i don't have any hair left!! LOL!!

Unfortunately the SC has done things in the past that has been an attack on hunters and hunters values--there is no way that any of us who have been watching this group can trust that they only want to use the tag to chase a lion for photo reasons--there has to be an agenda and what the agenda is who knows (can't be good for hunters). We as hunters can not be in bed with any group that is a danger to our sport. Give any group an inch and they will most certainly take a mile--keep them out of the big game tags and we will handle to burden on our own. Politics are a big part of our sport now but we should still keep our loyalty to the hunting community and keep the others who don't agree with our life style out if we can.

I own three 700's--one Sendero in the .300 win mag that is heavy to lug around but if you want to reach out and touch something you can not beat it. I also have the .22-250 that is used for varmint and most of the times we do stands so i don't really lug it around too much. I also have the SPS in the .204 Ruger that i use for varmints and it is a tack driver--the only thing i do not like about the .204 is loading it--i think it has more to do with the caliber than anything else but the little .204's do not want to slip into the clip area too easily--other than that you can not go wrong with a 700. Instead of Howa how about a Tikka?? awesome rifles that are deadly out of the box--i own the .270 WSM in the Tikka T3 Light and it has killed antelope, deer, elk, and a bunch of coyote's--great guns and not very expensive considering the workmanship that they have put into them.

http://www.thearizonahunter.com/forum/view...?f=8&t=2688

I have the 06 super duty--43,000 miles on her and have had no problems. I get about 16 to 18 in the city if i keep my foot out of her--i do have a programmer that is set on economy but that is it. I do have stock tires and no lift but that will change in a week. It gets absolutely fantastic mileage on the freeway! I fill her up in North Phoenix and drive it to Socorro New Mexico and then have a 1/4 of a tank of fuel left! (29 gallon tank) You can't beat them--not sure about the 08's but my buddy has one and he seems very happy with it.

I don't know you Scott but i can tell you are a good dude--i have a trailer at my house that you can use if you need one. I live in he--ll--or i mean Phoenix but if worst comes to shove let me know. I don't think i am using it at that time. PS--you can not park it at your place though!!!!

Do you all remember the "Gun's of October" movie they showed at all of our high school? Do you think maybe they will make another movie for all of the kids to see?? If i were a hounds man i would not let these people hire me as it will most likely be the beginning to the end of hound hunting as we know it. This is ammo for later use with these folks and if you don't believe that just sit back and see what kind of special affects they will use in the new movie.

Muzzy Pig unit 23 Rifle late bull 5A Toms first big game kill late rifle bull in 5A (i like this one best!)

The law is vague at best. I had an older gentleman shoot at a big bull elk a few years ago--he was 79 years old back then and his name was Jack Royal--he actually hit the bull my Dad shot but he thought he shot the 350" bull that i had busted. When we got to the bull i could see the old fella thought his bullet killed the bull and here he is with boogers flowing out of his nose, tears in his eye's shaking like a 12 year old kid and telling me how he would really rub it in to the two grandson's he sent into the canyon--what the heck could i do? I told him congrats on a great bull--helped him gut it, cut it up and pack it out--i know i killed the bull but he didn't--he truly thought he had killed it. Now to your question--you absolutely did the correct thing-maybe not by the law or how it is interpreted but the hunter law that we all live by you followed to the letter. Good job!