COOSEFAN

Also, the first thing I do when I first walk up to a bull and regardless if he laid there for 1 hour or 8, I take a knife and make a cut from the back of the skull all the way to his tail. I cut the neck meat down to the bone and then along both sides of the spine and pull back the back straps to the side so you can cut under them as well. This will allow these thick areas to cool while you are taking your pictures and if done correctly you won't notice the cuts in your trophy pics. Lots of folks are afraid to make that cut down the back of the neck, but it's fine as long as you keep it straight and centered on the back of the neck. Also, make sure you or the hunter don't want the backskin rug before you do this, otherwise you'll have two halves! JIM>

If it's bad, it'll smell bad or have a green tint to it. Sometimes it'll seem fine but then the butcher may decide it's not good later. I will always take the meat, even if it's questionable and keep it separated from the meat I know is good, and let the butcher decide.

The #1 thing to worry about is not giving the bull enough time to die. This all depends on the shot placement and arrow penetration. I'm not afraid to track at night and typically do it a time or two every year, but it's only if I feel it's a good shot. The bulls I let go all night, or have all day, are the ones where the shot placement is bad or unknown. If I know a bull is shot far back or low or high, I'll have no problem backing out and giving him at least 8 hours. Another thing to pay attention to during the early elk hunts is rain. If storms are a possibility, I'll wait close by or at the start of the track and if I think it's going to rain I'll get on the track early. If I have to start on a track early, I'll take it very slow and glass ahead methodically as I go. Not being able to glass ahead or read the sign as well is why I usually don't track at night on marginal hits. On any blood trail, especially if you are going after a poorly hit bull or an uncertain shot, it's always best to have 2 guys. 1 guy is responsible for taking it drop by drop, followed by the 2nd guy who should be glassing or looking ahead of the first guy while marking the last drop of blood found. Slow and very attentive to every detail of the track is key! Worrying about the meat loss is always secondary to me, recovering the animal is first and foremost. If the shot is good and there is good sign at the start, give him a full hour. If you are not sure but think it's good, give him 3-5 hours. If you know it's bad, give him 8! I unfortunately have experienced more losses than I care to recount and that's the reason why I'm always very careful to not push any wounded animal. As an example, i've sat and watched a gut shot bull for 11 hours before finally deciding to send the hunter in for a finishing shot. Unfortunately that hunter made an even worse 2nd shot and the bull was never recovered! Hindsight, since I had a visual on the bull, I should've continued watching him instead of risking the second stalk. Every situation is different, the one I just described isn't common, but never rush, always be patient and cautious and give the animal plenty of time. Don't worry about losing some meat, it won't matter if you lose the entire elk!

On the early elk hunts, leaving a bull over night usually doesn't result in much meat loss and if there is it's usually the neck and/or the side that is laying against the ground. It depends on how long the bull survived into the night and how fast you recover him in the morning too, so you never really know for sure. If you recover him late the next day and he's been laying in the sun, that's obviously not good and will for sure have meat loss. My philosophy has always been, "I'd rather lose some meat instead of the entire elk!" If the shot is anything less than good, or if you are unsure of the shot and it's close to dark, I'd leave till first light. Also, the elk on the early hunts still have a summer coat and that helps with not losing meat as fast, regardless if it's 30 or 60 degrees at night. But, on the late hunts, when they have their winter coats the risk of meat loss is much greater and it doesn't even matter if the temps are below freezing! I've seen way more meat loss on late bulls left over night than I have on early bulls. I will make every attempt possible to NOT leave a bull overnight on a late hunt, unless I'm sure the chance is too high of bumping him and risking a loss.

I've got a pair of 8.5x42 EL's and a pair of Swaro 15's for sale! Not sure on prices yet, but I need to get those new 12x50's asap!

The first thing that came to my mind was exactly what Yotebuster said! That can be the most frustrating hunt you've ever been on because of the lack of deer! There are some and there are some bigguns, but they are few and far between! You really have to have an intimate knowledge of the unit and where the deer are typically found to even have a decent chance at killing one! For somebody that doesn't have much prior knowledge of the unit, I would stay in the lower elevations and glass as much country as possible. If it's wet, I would walk the canyons in these same lower elevations until I found a track and run em' down! Best of luck! JIM>

I think I was more excited about seeing those pears than I was about the buck! Hope they look similar in the units I'll be checking out very soon!!! Great buck tho in that first set of pics! JIM>

I beleive they are talking about a different Pete

The tag should be good till Aug 14

Actually I've heard and believe the deformity will happen on the opposite side of the injury and is typically with leg injuries. I've also heard that there are parasites that can cause deformities as well. Some deformities are just a genetic trait and that can and does get passed down to offspring. We watch bulls grow every year in the same areas and it's fairly common to see genetic traits being handed down. It's neat seeing a new bull come of age and knowing who his daddy was! JIM>

I have the 12AE Muzzy tag this year too. This is the first time I've had it, but I've been on the hunt several times before while scouting for the late rifle hunt. It can be very frustrating and tough, primarily because even if you scout a bunch in advance, it can all change overnight! The weather will dictate where and how you hunt and you won't know what to expect until just before your hunt starts. I would get familiar with the terrain up on top, mid level and down at the bottom, that way you are at least familiar with all the areas if you have to change elevation during your hunt. When I'm scouting new terrain, I imagine myself in the same spot during the hunt and I figure out how I would hunt it. By doing this, if during your hunt the weather changes and you have to move, you already have spots picked out and game plans ready to go which will save you time. One thing you'll probably quickly realize on the Kaibab is that knowing where the mature bucks are living is only half the battle! Knowing how to hunt those areas thoroughly and effectively is the real challenge! Don't just bump around and rely on luck. Analyze the terrain, know that bucks, even if it's cold, will probably be bedded on the north facing slopes. Slowly still hunt along south facing slopes while even more slowly and methodically glassing into the north facing bedding area across from you as you go. Force yourself to have patience and stay confident there is a buck hiding across from you, even use high power optics at close range and pic apart any windows you have, and spend all day out there doing it! Best of luck, if I run into you up there I hope we are comparing giants at the check station! JIM>

Congrats on an amazing deer tag Ilene, but i gotta say, if i get done or give up on the Buffs early, there will be 1 less big buck for you to hunt! LOL! I may be just a little excited!!! WHOOHOOO!!! Dang! There is noth'n safe in the woods when you're around Jim! Guess I'll have to take your leftovers Ha! You really don't have to worry about me Ilene, i'm content with the muley I already have so i'm sure my focus will be on Buffalo. On the other hand, the fact that we have 4 early rifle 12AE tags in the family might be cause for worry! For both of us!!! LOL! If i don't have any clients, i'll contact you after my hunt and give you all the info i have at that point for your hunt! Congrats again Ilene!

WHOOOHOOOO!!! I drew a 12AE Muzzy Buffalo tag!!!! Congrats on an amazing deer tag Ilene, but i gotta say, if i get done or give up on the Buffs early, there will be 1 less big buck for you to hunt! LOL! I may be just a little excited!!! WHOOHOOO!!!

Yes. I had the 12x50 EL's set up next to my 15's last winter and now I wish I didn't do it!!! All it did was made me realize that I NEED to buy those new EL's! When you look through something better, you quickly realize what you are lacking in what you currently use. My 15's seemed perfectly fine until I looked through the EL's. The big difference was colors and sharper lines. The image through the EL's was crisp, the colors were brighter and the shadows were darker, this all created better definition and more depth. When I then looked back through my 15's, the image seemed flat and all the colors seemed dull and actually blended together which looses definition. This higher contrast and defintion definitely outweighs the lower magnification issue, even though they are 3x less (which actually isn't very noticeable) you'll see more critters with the 12x EL's. I also carried around and tested the new EL Range binos and absolutely fell in love with them. For me, and for anyone who is typically assisting somebody else, they are an incredible tool! The first time I used them we killed a 117". The stalk and set up went fast and the whole thing was rushed but it was a huge help having the ability to range and watch the moving buck without taking my eyes off em' the whole time!

Good luck on finding a definition for an "Average Hunter", everyone has their own definition in mind and there's no right or wrong one. I don't think it's skill level, bank account or character that can define whether someone is or isn't an "Average Hunter". I think it possibly can be determined by how much time they spend in the feild every year hunting, regardless of whether it's critters or birds. But, some folks can't afford to be in the field as much as they want, so even time spent in the field isn't a good determining factor. Just my $.02 Craig, I am curious which newsletter you read or what it said?

I saw the deer look alike and spent too much time trying to decide if it was or not and totally missed the coyote! That was a good one, and I still don't think it's a deer between the laydowns but sure catches the eye! JIM>

"If they are being spent on access, water hauling, tank rebuilding and other wildlife conservation projects, than I believe they are a GREATthing for ALL hunters." This IS where the money goes, so they ARE a great thing for all hunters, and the wildlife! It's jealousy by certain people towards the few that can afford a special tag that brings a bad light on these important fund raising tools. The jealous people assume it's all about greed and try hard to shine a negative light anyway they can. They never acknowledge or recognize all the good that comes from the money raised or the facts of who and what benefits from it! It is false assumptions and accusations by this group of people, whom typically have very little knowledge or experience in the subject, that creates the negative vibe towards special tags! I am jealous of those that can afford a special tag, but I also am very thankful that they would spend their money on something that benefits what I care deeply about, and that's our wildlife!!! Here's some insight to where some of the money goes.... http://www.arizonaelksociety.org/?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=58 http://www.arizonaelksociety.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=39&Itemid=56

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I watched both of your mounts come to life in Bret's shop and can attest to the fact he puts a ton of effort into every mount he does and your's were no exception! They both look awesome and that Coati was as old and big as they get! The pics don't do the mounts justice, they look better in person! JIM>

I'm going to finally try and build a platform for our boat and really don't know the best way to do it. Which materials, height, anchoring to deck, etc. I know we have some serious bowfishers here and would love to see pics of your setups or get any advice from you on building a deck. What's your thoughts on the best generator to use for night fishing lights? What's the best lights? Any other thoughts or advice? I'm stuck with using a 20ft Triton bass boat so I don't have much room for a deck to begin with. Plus, I don't want to hard mount it to the boat so it will need to be removable. There's already several cleats positioned well for anchoring the platform so hopefully that works but not sure if it's enough? Thanks, JIM>

Didn't mean to hi-jack your thread Mybarra! If anyone is interested in Swaro 15's, jump on this deal! Best glass any hunter could own!!! JIM>

Anybody know if those EL's are still there? dtymurty...that is the Swarovski Stud not the Outdoorsmans

HA! I know! Unfortunately for me, the window I have to enjoy springtime activities is a short one and my hunting season has already begun. If it wasn't for rebuilding this truck I'd already be in the woods watching the bulls grow! I do look forward to at least seeing you all out there this weekend! JIM>

Man I'm so jealous you guys have been out shootin fish! I still haven't built a deck for my boat and instead have spent all my money and time lately on building a new engine for my huntin rig. I still might throw something together and do the shoot, but I'm thinking it's more likely that I'll just show up to hang out with you all and just fish all night so that I can watch the weigh in. We'll see! JIM>

I've seen similar areas, usually close to town and not far off highways, and the ones I've seen are dump sites for road kill. I would bet, and hope, that's what that is, or at least a dump site for a local meat processor. JIM>