bonecollector777

Lady at AZGFD must have been tired of answering calls today because I waited thirty minutes to talk to someone and when she answered she told me the results would be posted online by Thursday or Friday. Found it kind of odd because I didn't think they posted leftover results online. Guess I'll have to call again tomorrow and bother her some more to find out if I get the tag I put in for.

I drew the 23N early archery bull tag and was just curious to know how many of us on the site ended up with it? Or knows someone that got it. Only 15 tags so I figure tag holders could be spread out all over the place. . I definitely got lucky with only 7 BP's and would like to know how many points you other guys had that got it.

Oops, just saw the address to send it to on the top of the leftover tag list. Excuse my last post

Are you sure that if you send it to the carefree office it will be processed? I can just see them saying you didn't send it to the right address and denying your app for some reason.

If it's in the rut it should be fairly easy to just follow the bugles and cut them off. Seems like a lot of the time you chase bulls the stupid cows end up coming within shooting range and bust you before the bull gets there. So I would hunt them just like you are hunting bull. Even if the bull hunters get mad. It's not your fault AZGFD made the hunts at the same time.

What time of year is that? During the rut?

The salt was completely for agricultural purposes and the cattle in the area right? kidding.. that's crazy how much water came down in just a couple of days! That should last the rest of the summer I would think.

I want to take away their rights? Where the H did you pull that one out of? Did I mention something about banning people from killing small animals or sending them to jail for not trophy hunting? Where do you guys come of with this stuff?

Haha you guys crack me up. Do you not realize that just as you have your opinion that someone can shoot whatever they want I have just as much of a right to an opinion that people that are non-trophy hunters shouldn't put in for premium tags? The best part is how riled up you guys get that I said it like it's some horrible thing to think that way. Find something better to complain about.

Awesome you got a sheep tag! But what's the $104.25 charge?

This is not even remotely related to Shawn Wagners elk hunt and your feeble attempts to resurrect an old case settled in court! That you said you would have "IN THE NEWS" Are you really that illiterate .... NO THERE IS NOTHING IN THE MEDIA ABOUT "YOUR" WINY A$$ IMMATURE MENTAL WANDERINGS! And there never will be you idjiot!! Haha not related to Shawn Wagner's elk hunt? Did you not read the story? It specifically mentions Shawn Wagner's elk hunt and azcentral has a link to the court papers. I'm not sure what being illiterate would have to do with anything were talking about here? Do you know what that word means? Someone that can't read or write. Don't try and use words outside your vocab Rifleman. You don't make sense. There should have been a question mark after that question anyway haha So actually there IS a lot of info in the media about the things we have brought up. Keep ignoring them and acting like the AZGFD isn't corrupt. The case regarding Shawn poaching an elk was never even taken to court as I have explained countless times and therefore we are not trying to resurrect it but simply see that Shawn, along with all the other officers involved are punished like they should be. You need to actually read the things posted here before coming on and sounding like an idiot. By the way it's whiny a$$, immature, mental wanderings. You idiot*. Don't ever start a sentence with the word and. We learned that in 1st grade. Whew. . that was a lot of mistakes to correct. You might wanna learn how to write before calling people illiterate.

And thank you Richardoutwest for posting it here for us to see. Glad to see some results.

Rifleman, let's hear an apology now? Nothing in the Media? hahaha I love it. . Great to see this info getting spread around to everyone and that Dennis took the time to write this up. Keep 'em coming!

Went out this last week and found about ten sheds. Mostly little chalky ones and then about 5 hours into it I walked into this big single. I circled and circled but couldn't find the other side. About 2 hours later I noticed an antler that looked pretty strange about 50 yards away and when I got closer I saw that it was a set that had fallen right on top of each other. They ended up being from last year but they are pretty sweet! One side has the cheater and the other side has the cheater and a split main beam with cheaters! The single,assuming the other side matched and giving a forty inch spread, would score right around 355. The set with a forty inch spread scored right around 360 with the broken eye guard and a broken extra. With those extras he would score right around 370. Hope you like them!

I have used mud and it has turned out great every time. I found a dead bull that scored about 370" and caked the antlers in mud like described above. Waited a couple days. Scraped it off and then used a light coating of linseed oil to seal it and it looks great! That was a really chalky bull too so any antler that is still in good shape will look even better. Once they are up on the wall it's very hard to tell anything was done to it.

If you're going to do some shed hunting head towards the reservation. I live 2 miles from the lake and have hunted near there my whole life and have never found anything but a deer shed. You might get lucky looking in some of the deeper canyons by the lake but from past experience it's tough around there. I have had a lot more success up near the reservation where the bulls are crossing back and forth.

Thanks for keeping the spotlight on subject Rifleman Just helpin' us out! Things are in the works just give it time. Until then keep us posted about what's going on.

Bonecollector777 Dude you seriously need to just quit hunting. Take up needle working or gardening. You piss and moan more than anyone I have ever heard or seen on this site. Once you grow up and understand the real world and how it is not perfect, How there are economics and budgets and politics everywhere you turn, you will be such a much happier person. The world is not out to get you and make all your hunting experiences horrible. Its good that have a voice and evidently you like to voice it every chance you get. That is your right as an American. Complaining about it on a website does no good unless you are proactive. Join conservation groups, donate money to them, be heavily involved with them. Better yet it sounds like you need to be a politician. Because what you are complaining about on every single post is way way above your pay grade son. And your not going to change it. Enjoy your day. And smile today. Awe. . what's even funnier is the fact that you get so bothered with what I say. I really couldn't care less about what you post so why do you care what I post? I'm one of the happiest people you will meet. I simply dislike the AZGFD and what they are doing and you can see that I will voice my opinion about them every chance I get. If someone had to have permission or if everyone had to like their opinion no one could give their opinion. Everyone else on this thread gave the same opinion about the AZGFD and what they are doing and you didn't say anything. I didn't know my comments were so important for you to follow and get your feelings hurt about. Great advice about just giving up on giving your opinion because it's not going to change anything. You should teach your kids that. I think it would be great if everyone learned to just give up on trying to change things they don't like. The world would be even better. NOT. Have a great day and relax a little today

Well I think you all know how I feel about what was posted here. But does it surprise any of you? I, along with many others, have said it time and time again. AZGFD is just a bunch of money hungry thieves. They had to figure out a quick way to get that $100,000 they gave to Wagner haha but in all seriousness this is ridiculous. No one will support them in this yet the day after their meetings they will come out saying that the vast majority of people supported them in this and it will pass. Their "suggestions" or "recommendations" for the public are what they are going to do. They only put it out for the public so it looks like they gave everyone a chance to give their opinions. With no one to answer to and no end to the power they have it is only going to get worse. What's gonna stop them from raising them next year and the next? NOTHING. Glad to see you're seeing the light flatlander!

Hey guys, I think everything has been said that needs to so the moderator decided to lock the thread which is fine because there isn't really much more to be said. It can all still be read at the top of the campfire page. It is pinned there. I'm not writing this to start another thread about it. Simply letting you know because I had thought someone deleted it and I couldn't find it.

Sounds good. . I'm not asking anyone to be on my side. Just passin' on the facts. I'm just not quite sure how name calling from others towards me seems to get overlooked but when I respond back to it people find it horrifying and disrespectful? Seriously go back through any name calling I have made on this site and see if you can find one that wasn't in response to someone calling me something first. You won't find one Immature. . yeah probably. But laughing at their ridiculous insults and seeing the joke turned on the guys attempting to make me feel bad just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside But think what you wish. I'm not here to make fans.

Oh I definitely want this topic to live on. I want every hunter in AZ and the U.S. to hear about this BS that is happening here in AZ. There are a lot more responses of disgust of the AZGFD than of your few posts that try to seem like what they did is ok. Yeah people have been called names but if you go back and check you will see in every post I have ever made that no name calling started with me. Tough guys likes yourselves attempt to come to AZGFD's rescue by calling me a punk, wannabe, child, or whatever it may be and I answer back with how I feel about you. Seems pretty fair to me If you can dish it out you gotta be able to take it. It's funny to me that you few people see this as talking trash about someone. Apparently when laws are broken by corrupt people no one should bring it up or try and stop the corruption? What a horrible way of thinking. Sounds a lot like some things going on with the president right now. This thread should stay right where it is so all can see it and learn about the corrupt AZGFD. That was my only purpose in this post. To let people know about the corruption taking place. I knew it would get a lot of responses but I had no idea you AZGFD lovers would still try and come up with a way of defending the wardens when there are court documents showing the many laws they broke. This IS my battle to fight. It should be ALL of our battle to fight. This is OUR wildlife being taken care of by these corrupt people. If that's not a good enough reason for you to fight for what's right you should be ashamed to call yourself a hunter. Thank goodness all hunters don't think like you few do. What a sad and even more corrupt world that would be. Even if the topic gets deleted, which would cause many to lose support of such a great site, it is much too late for those that have read it to forget what is happening. This is now a topic among hundreds if not thousands of sportsmen as we can see in the near 11,000 views in four days. And that's just on this website. If I'm not mistaken this post may have had more views than ANY other topic on this website in such a short amount of time. Many of these people have personally thanked me for passing this information on and have forwarded it to their friends. There are many people who are already doing their part to see that justice is served and that this corruption is stopped. Believe it or not. It's happening. Continue with the name calling if you would like but believe me I'm not gonna stop passing on information that people need to know about. Give me a few days till my next topic about a warden down south by the name of McGeehee. I think you boys will love it!

At least come up with something original Rifleman. Don't go around posting the same stupid message in various posts. Makes you look even more stupid than I already thought you were. And that's hard to do.

Here I have attached a court hearing in regard to the matter of a game and fish officer Shawn Wagner shooting an elk while hunting with various other officers and a judge. Shawn shot an elk while hunting in 3B and made a bad shot on a bull. The bull was tracked but not recovered. Shawn left to Phoenix the next morning and signed his transport tag over to another officer without the knowledge that the elk was dead. Long story short the other officers proceeded to look for the elk and found it STANDING UP, WOUNDED BUT VERY MUCH ALIVE and proceeded to shoot the animal FOR Shawn and PUT SHAWNS TAG ON IT. Somehow all 4 officers thought this to be ok to do and acted as if Shawn had been there the whole time and killed his own elk. Let's pause for a second. Can any of you imagine what the AZGFD would do to any of us if we did something like this? Not only would we be fined but would also have our license taken away. But seeing as though their own employee did it they felt it was ok to let it slide. The elk was killed by another officer and somehow (to save Shawn and themselves from being punished) concluded the "fatal" wound was from Shawns arrow a day earlier. This elk was alive enough to be standing up and after various poor placed shots into the animals legs and throat it finally was killed.The animal was transported and taken to a meat processor after. Besides the fact this this absurd act was called legal it gets even better. As you will read in the court papers other officers then began looking into the incident to see if it was legal or not. The badly trained officers and chairmen conducted their investigation incorrectly and did things out of order which eventually led to Shawn and all people involved to be let off scot-free. Not only scot-free but Shawn then SUED THE AZGDF FOR $100,000 and WON!!!!!!! WTF? Please read the court papers I attached as they explain things in much better detail and you will see the corrupt things that take place inside the game and fish. Some statements from the chairmen during the investigation were things like "If we didn't have to play by the rules this would have been done a long time ago." and "we didn't want to start another investigation into the officers that didn't follow policy because they would be too much of a hassle." HAHA are you kidding me? In the end not one person was punished,demoted, or fired after these events. It only shows that as long as you are one of them you are ABOVE the law and apparently can do what you want and get away with it as long as benefits you. The illegal acts of all involved are shameful and things like this can't be tolerated. People lose their licenses over throwing some trash on the ground and GandF officers end up $100,000 richer for illegally taking elk. Seems wrong in every possible way. Are these the kind of people you want managing our wildlife? m5569612.pdf

Whew . . where to start! First off I would like to ask Rifleman what the name of his Boyfriend is that works at AZGFD? I have never seen anyone so blatantly ignore facts that were shown in a court document and proceed to suggest that me passing on information pertaining to law breaking government officials is worthless crap. The only kind of people that would want to ignore this illegal activity would be an employee of the Game and Fish. Or a lover of one of the wardens. Still haven't figured out which one it is. Next thing I would like to point out is that Wagner was not EVER tried in court for the laws that were broken. This court document pertains only to him suing the game and fish. Which I agree completely that they did the investigation wrong and were punished for doing it wrong. The point that a lot of us are missing is that NO ONE who was there that day that broke several laws or had something to do with this cover up was issued a citation. NO ONE. The only reason I was able to find out about this case is because of the fact that Wagner sued the AZGFD. Had he not there would have never been a court case to get papers from. They would have all stuck with their agreement that no law was broken, which is completely insane, and went on with their lives. The only way we would have been able to find out about it is if someone knew it happened and issued a subpoena of the investigation of Wagner. Which is what AZGFD thought would happen. That it would be forgotten and not brought up again. Unfortunately for them Wagner sued and now the word got out. So Rifleman and all others that think Wagner was tried and proven not guilty, read up on the case and realize NONE OF THESE GUYS WERE EVER WRITTEN A CITATION and therefore never even had to be tried for any wrong doing. Because their supervisors wanted to give them the "employee discount" that only AZGFD employees receive. The next mind blowing fact is that three different government agencies who's sole purpose is to investigate illegal activity botched the investigation three separate times as seen in the court documents. Fishy maybe? Who knows. . but it is hard to believe that those that know how to investigate and have investigated thousands of people managed to "do it wrong" three times which led to the suit filed by Wagner. Were those involved from the AZGFD punished? NOPE. They just continued on with life in their same positions. Would the investigation have been botched had it been any of us "normal folk"? I think not. For all of those that think I have something against the AZGFD because I have been in trouble are more than welcome to check my records to see if I have even so much as received a speeding ticket in my life. This isn't about revenge or spite. This is about years of seeing this corrupt department treat good people like crap. Good and honest hunters who make every effort to be good sportsmen that make one mistake are then turned into criminals by the power hungry game wardens. These same power hungry game wardens turn around and commit much more serious offenses and know that because of who they are nothing will happen to them. Time after time after time this happens. We have many examples of this corruption. Here are a few: A commissioner shooting prairie dogs out of season and being let go scot-free when a couple years before that he was insistent a hunter lose his license for five years for doing the same thing. That hunter lost his license. The commissioner was not disciplined. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/34635-commissioner-husted-suspends-hunters-license-for/?hl=prairie That same commissioner accused of various sexual harassment charges. Was not tried legally and is still a reserve warden for the department http://www.azcentral.com/news/arizona/articles/20130417arizona-wildlife-chief-quit-under-fire.html A jaguar killed by the Game and Fish. Many stories were given to hide the truth. No one was disciplined. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121215macho-b-death-jaguar-mystery.html This case that is being talked about right now of game wardens knowingly breaking the law and then cover it up and are never even issued a citation. An investigation into John Romero, a famous reptile biologist for the AZGFD. What ever happened to him? http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20130130arizona-game-fish-official-under-investigation.html These are just a few examples and I know we have all seen more of this taking place. Sad thing is these are the few examples that ever get to the public. All the others never get out of the AZGFD offices. Some on here are thanking Wagner for coming onto this sight to comment. While it was a nice thing to do (but completely for himself to look like a nice guy) and while some of you have had good experiences with him still doesn't excuse the fact that numerous laws were broken by the people who claim to know them best. Not only was no one punished, but no one even received a citation. I think we have all vented and explained how we feel. Now it is a matter of whether or not we are going to put up with this from the department who takes care of our wildlife's future. I urge you to write, email, or call the governors office, the attorney generals office, the game and fish office (probably won't help but will let them know how we feel), and the news channels. If there is enough pressure things will be taken care of. If we all sit back and do nothing, things will only continue to get worse. There has never been more support from Arizona hunters or a better time for all of us to stand up and make change happen. Below I have listed links to phone numbers and emails to contact the leaders and agencies that can make this change happen. Governor Jan Brewer: http://www.azgovernor.gov/Contact.asp Attorney General Tom Horne: https://www.azag.gov/contact-us AZGFD: http://www.azgfd.gov/comments.shtml Main office: 602-942-3000 Director Larry D. Voyles 602-942-3000 Deputy Director Ty Gray 602-236-7100 Legislative Liaison Tony Guiles 602-942-3000 Community Congressional Relations Ben Alteneder 623-236-7334 ABC 15: http://www.abc15.com/subindex/about_us/contact_us The Arizona Republic: http://www.azcentral.com/news/investigations/tip-form.php Fox 10: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/category/233631/contact-us News Channel 3 KTVK: http://www.azfamily.com/on-tv/contact/ CBS 5: Email: 5investigates@cbs5az.com/ Call 602-650-0711