CouesWhitetail

Coueschaser, Got any pics of that monster???? Amanda

Coueschaser, You can read a bit about what people have seen in the Hunting in Arizona, December Hunters posts. From what I have seen in 24A, the rut is just starting. I saw some smaller bucks chasing does around. And I saw some monster bucks alone by themselves. But I also one large buck with a doe, but not chasing her around. So it seems like it's just starting. I am giving in a few more days to heat up before I go back out. Amanda

You guys talking about the Primos "easy estrus bleat" or the Primos "hyper estrus bleat" can. The "hyper estrus" bleat can is smaller and higher pitched, so I was wondering if that was better for Coues deer. Anyone know a good place to get one of those calls in PHX/Mesa area? Amanda

Congrats to those of you who got your bucks! Don't forget to send in some photos and hunt stories if you write something up. Amanda

Hey Allen, Glad to hear you got a trip lined up. I am going down as well. Probably Jan 21st or so. Can't wait!! You will have to let us know how it goes! Amanda

Hi All, I just got back from 3 days backpacking in 24A. Was a great hunt, but didn't connect yet. Saw lots of deer, lots of bucks, and at least two that would go about 100 inches. But one of those bucks had his right side broken off after the eyeguard. But man did he look good on his left side. nice eyeguards, tall seconds, kinda short 3rds, but wide and long main beams (at least based on his unbroken side!). He was with a doe and following her around. Another buck followed them. Saw several smaller bucks running does around. Even a spike chasing a fawn. So the rut is starting, but the big boys are not quite into it yet. Mostly the younger bucks. We camped out thursday night during the rain and snowstorm. We didn't have a tent, just bivy sacks. Made for a long night! here are a few pics from opening morning. It was a very cold day and very foggy. Tough to glass anywhere past 50 yards! But the next two days were stellar. Scott, I was really wishing I had your goats and your kifaru tent!!! Amanda

Jason, Thanks for posting the info. It's good to know. Amanda

Thanks for mentioning it Jason. I will go check my copy now. Amanda

Larry, You should consider getting a copy of Duwane and Tony's "How to Hunt Coues deer" book. It has lots of info about where to hunt in each unit. And advice on whether the units have good bucks in them or not. Here is a link to where you can buy the book from this website: How to Hunt Coues Deer book I personally haven't hunted 34 or 35, but I think that 34A and B should be good. They have the Santa Rita Mtns and the Whetstones. I have been on Fort Huachuca (35A) and there is some great Coues habitat there. But you pretty much have to be military to hunt there. 35B should be good in the Patagonia Mtns and the Canelo Hills. But Duwane (in his book) says the success has been low there and that unless you have the December hunt you many not want to try that unit. Amanda

I think units 29, 36 and 32 would be good units. I would avoid 30B due to low Coues deer densities. I hunted that unit once and didn't really enjoy it. 30A could be really good in the Peloncillos, but I haven't been in there. It just looks like good country for Coues. Here is a link to the draw odds that I have posted on my site: Draw odds - AZ rifle Check those out and look at the survey data which I have posted: Survey data On those pages I give info on how to use the data to figure out which units to hunt. That stuff should help you out. Amanda

I think they will be rutting earlier this year since I think we got some well-timed rains to help with plant growth for their nutrition. I can't wait! The weather has started turning cold. I could see my breathe tonight. And it rained quite a bit today. Amanda

Have fun in the Galiuros!! I have done some backpack hunting in there too and it is awesome! Let us know how you do! I am heading out this weekend in Unit 24A and I just can't wait. Gonna backpack hunt a really neat area I have scouted a few times. Amanda

Jesus, I don't know if the Phantom caller will work on Coues Deer, but it sounds pretty similar. I imagine that it would. Maybe it's not perfectly like Coues deer, but they are WT and those are WT calls, so I think it's probably close enough. I haven't tried it because the thing is expensive. But I have been dying to! Anyone out there ever used it for Coues??? Amanda

Robert, Thanks for taking the time to post all this info. I know several of the calls you are talking about, but I don't think I know the dove-like call you mentioned. I will have to listen for it. We should make you walk around with a tape recorder! Then we would all be able to hear it. Here is a link to a site that I mentioned in a hunt story I wrote. It is a link to Phantom calls and you can play the calls that Robert is talking about (the different grunts, the doe bleat). It doesn't have the scream, although I have heard that one and you are right, it's very disturbing (and I heard it from far away, I can imagine how unnerving it would be right next to me!). Phantom calls Anyone else heard that dove-like call he is talking about? Thanks again for sharing your advice and experience Robert. Amanda

More D - I did that with some Coues does. Walked right up to them while they were watching me. I was just talking photos of them. There is hunting pressure there where I did it, but not much, so maybe they had no real reason to fear me. Robert -- Have you seen a change in the distribution of water where you hunt in the wilderness? I find that deer move significantly if their water sources dry up. I have some places where I used to see a lot of deer, but they have had to move to different parts of a mountain because now only one water source is available. Maybe water has dried up where you used to see so many deer? AZ4life - I know a guy who lived that ultimate scenario of lion/deer that you were talking about. He was able to shoot a lion that was attacking a buck and then get the buck too. Awesome story. Amanda

I think the most I have seen in a group was 7 bucks and it was during a November hunt in the Chiricahuas. It was in a place that my friend had recommended I hunt and he called it "six buck city" since several years ago when he hunted it there was a group of 6 bucks. This year, I have only seen small groups of bucks. Usually 2 together. Like AZ4Life, I have also seen groups of bucks following around a group of does during the rut. When I see this, usually the big buck is just waiting patiently for the does to be ready, while the smaller bucks are more whipped up and chase the does around. My guess is that the big buck will tolerate the smaller ones only while the doe is not ready to breed. Once she is ready, I imagine he will fight off the interlopers. I have also seen single bucks tending single does during the rut. This year, all I need is to see the right buck during my December hunt . Amanda

I included that graph to show you the range of dates and peaks of antler polishing, antler shedding, fawning and breeding for Coues deer. I know it's a big image, but it's easier to read it that way I think and I didn't want to take the time to shrink it down. That graph is from the Coues deer life stages section on this web site. If you want to read more, click on this link: Coues Life Stages I just posted those links for easy access to those who have not yet read that section. CHD - yes everything really is about 2 months later than northern deer. And it does take some getting used to. Antler polishing takes place in Sept/October, shedding antlers takes place in April/May. I always hate having to wait that long in the desert to get some sheds because it is so darn hot by then! Peak breeding is late Dec to mid-Jan. Mule deer tend to peak their breeding in Nov/Dec. As always, nutrition strongly influences the dates that things peak in any given year. Peak fawning for Coues tends to be in August. I am not completely sure how much different the desert muleys are from the more northern mule deer in terms of antler growth and breeding. Maybe some other people on this forum know better than I do. And yes, the Coues deer in the northern part of their range start breeding a little earlier than in the southern part of their range. So deer in Mexico rut a little later. Maybe some of you guys that have hunted Mexico have some experience to share with regard to this. Amanda

Yes, I think a big buck will flag when alarmed. But I also know that a big buck seems less likely to spook and run than a smaller buck or does/fawns. They are likely to try and hide or slink out unobserved. If you read the hunt story by Martin Guerena in my hunt story section, you will understand what I mean by a big buck hiding while the does ran. And I also find that the big bucks when travelling in bachelor groups in Nov will allow the smaller bucks to "expose" themselves first. Usually the biggest buck will be following, or allowing the little buck to step out of cover first. Have you guys noticed that? As far as waving the flag, I can't say I remember watching them wave, but I imagine they do sometimes. All the times I can think of they have put it straight up. Perhaps Travis is right that Coues don't do it often. I will have to start watching for that consciously now! Amanda

Hi GG, I don't know that unit well, but another place you can search for info and make a post is on the excellent JavelinaHunter.com web site. I believe the guy that runs that site hunts the Tortillitas. Hopefully someone here in CW.com will have some help for you too. here is the link to that other site: JavelinaHunter.com Amanda

oops, forgot to add the link to the photo. I posted it in the Coues deer sheds page 5 gallery. Coues Sheds 5

Josh and others, GreyGhost sent in a pic of those 13 sheds he found in one saddle on the same day! You can't really see the shed from the 120 inch buck, but holy cow, what a find. Imagine that, finding all those sheds and one monster shed DURING your DECEMBER hunt!! Did you ever see that buck during your hunt GreyGhost??? Amanda

Kevin, You might be able to get some of your questions answered by reading the Coues Biology section that discusses the rut. Here is the link: Coues Life Stages That page has a graph that shows the timing of antler growth, rut, and fawning. There is also info on the effect of nutrition on the rut. Here are some quick answers to your questions. Rutting behavior can start in Nov and run into March, but generally the peak is in January. Late December can be good. So if you have that December hunt, you might want to hold out until the end when the rut is more likely to be in swing. You will have to guage it yourself though to see what is happening where you hunt. Nutrition is a huge factor in breeding activity. In AZ, there have been studies that showed that in years of poor rainfall the rut is 2-3 weeks later than in years of good rainfall. But of course the timing of the rains is very important. I think that although we haven't had great rainfall this year, I think it was timed well and that the deer should be in pretty good condition (good antler growth, good body condition for does). Generally, the rut starts earlier in the northern part of their range than in the southern. So the bucks rut later in Mexico. If you find a buck during preseason scouting there is a good chance you will find him in the same are during the rut. But the bucks move more widely during the rut, so he will be working a bigger area than in the preseason. What I recommend is in addition to finding the bucks, take note of where the doe groups are. The does will be in the same area during the rut and the bucks come to them. So if you find 6-8 doe groups in preseason scouting, try and locate them again during the rut and watch for the bucks to be running them. The does are only receptive to breeding for a few days during each estrus cycle, so the bucks have to be there when the does are ready. So they bucks move around constantly checking the does to see who is ready. Also, I suggest you be very patient in watching the bucks. I have seen younger bucks harass does that were not ready to breed while the larger bucks stayed mostly hidden nearby. So just because you see some bucks, doesn't mean you see all of them with those does. The younger bucks don't have the experience to wait until the does are ready. Hope that helps! Amanda

Happy Thanksgiving Ernesto and everyone! Amanda

Wow, great buck. I was under the impression it was next to impossible to get a permit to hunt on the Gray Ranch. It sure looks like some great Coues Country. Do you have to be a CEO to get a tag? How do they handle tags there? Amanda

AZ4life - I had a couple similar experiences with Coues deer sniffing dead animals, but they were all deer that were in the group with them before I shot them. One time I was in a thick white oak grove and a herd of bucks had come down the open hillsides to the grove. I was about 30-40 yards away from the bucks as they walked single file through an opening in front of me. When I fired, the noise was deafening, and the buck dropped instantly. But the buck that had already passed through the opening came back and sniffed his buddy despite a very loud gunshot having just gone off. CHD- I think it's more likely that that deer was spooked by something and just ran back in fear. Then when she calmed down and saw that the other deer walking calmly toward her she settled down. But who knows. I do think they form attachments though. They are social animals. Your story reminds me of a time when I was mule deer hunting and I glassed up a frantic whitetail that had busted up out of the brush on to the top of a flat and was running around in terror. I couldn't figure what was going on. The deer kept was kind of going in circles and running back toward where she had flushed from as if concerned for something there. Then I heard this awful screaming sound and what I think happened was that this doe and her fawn had been jumped by a lion (which I never saw) and that the doe escaped but not the fawn. It was a terrible noise and it was pretty loud even though I was far away from it. Amanda