4Falls

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Thanks, let me know when u find it and well sort it out.

Thanks, let me know when u find it and well sort it out.

Every weekend Im out in unit 8 with 4 maps (prescott nf, kaibab nf and each respective travel mgmt map) Appartently I'm the only one out there playing by the rules. Every road is beat with tire tracks from all types of vehicles and theres vehicle tracks randomly through the forest as well. I know that the forest cops were out issuing tickets in the beginning but it looks like they've given up.

I was in unit 8 on Sunday. Two forest service maps, two travel management maps. Lot of paper to carry around. Checking out tanks near roads that should be closed. It appears the word hasnt got out yet to most people. Vehicle tracks everywhere, some just randomly thru the country.

To me of all these closures and restrictions are a just a small part of a bigger picture. These are OUR lands not the Forest Services. We have given them PERMISSION to manage them for us. But due to their hands off extreme envirmentalist policies, they have quit managing them and instead have let them fall into disrepair and are now blaming us for the condition of the lands. They'll just keep pushing us out a little at a time time till were gone.

The more I look at these FS road restrictions they seem like more anti-dispersed camping regulations than anything else. Though the Coconino does seem to have the most road closures, of the four NF's that have published their maps. My initial anger over all this has subsided for now. I have a few spots that I like to hunt in unit 8 that are going to be an extra hour or so hike. But like others have said, hopefully that will mean I'll have less competition. I say that tongue-in-cheek because I know there will still be guys zooming past me on quads while I'm being a good guy and playing by the rules. However, my dads favorite places in 6a and 5a are now out of reach for a man of his age and physical limitations. Im sure this wont make him too happy soon as I get my hard copy of the Coc map Ill have to go over it with him.

"To the guys opposed to this, what would you suggest be done? Just continue allowing people to go and camp wherever they want. To continue driving on roads they shouldnt, and creating new roads wherever they want? Do you also feel like the law stating people can't camp within 1/4 of a mile of a waterhole is infringing on their rights as well. Or are you glad you don't have someone camping right next to your treestand on your favorite waterhole?" To me this is much more complex then protecting habitat and creating quiet areas. Of course I want both of those things. There have already been rules in place for years preventing people from driving on undesignated areas (cross country for example). That never stopped anyone from doing it and it was rarely enforced. So now once again the game is changing for those of us who play by the rules and those who dont will continue on. This whole thing smells to me. From the 30' camping limit in the KNF. Its 300' in PNF and 30' or 300' depending where you are in the CNF. Not sure of the restrictions on the ASNF or TNF. To the complete ambiguity of the closed or open road issue. It appears to me that some roads are open on the PNF side that are not on the KNF side for instance. Or some that are open for a portion of the way, how will one know when hes come to the legal end of a road? And as others have said the map just plain sucks and I'm sure thats intentional as well. Many more examples have been expressed on this thread as well. This is how the other side (the environmental movement) operates. One peice at a time. This is just another piece.

It will provide FS with a good source of revenue for a couple of years, then when we all get used to it they'll close a bit more and add a FS usage fee. And on and on and on. How else are they going to pay for the officers to patrol and for the helicopter fuel to fly over areas looking for rogue campers. This type of rulemaking only effects the honest people anyway. The guys who have been breaking the rules for years love this stuff. Its always been against the rules to drive you quad or ranger cross country in Prescott and Kaibab NF. But they did it then and will continue. Meanwhile FS will be out with tape measures busting some family of four on there weekend get away.

I have not read all the thread but up to this one only. You are right it is unacceptable and our next step is to comply. The time to fight this was in meetings that have been posted in the past with nobody showing up except the greenies to fight it. The problem lies with us....... The people that use the outdoors and yet fail to unite from one group to the next to icrease numbers. The Off-road groups blame it on the huntting groups. The huntting groups blame it on the quads. The quads blame it on the RV's. The RV blame it on ect, ect, ect..... The greenies blame it on all of us and stand togather in numbers to screw us over. WinMag is right the our window of opportunity has long since closed on this issue and it will be difficult to reverse. Its not only hunters that are getting affected by this its everyone who uses the forest. Woodcutters, campers, hikers, ranchers, birdwatchers... etc were all being watched. I still believe that its just the first step in getting us all out of the woods. I know someone who was "checked" while parked on an open road because his vehicle fit the description (white pick-up) of one that was reported to be driving on closed roads. In the end he was not cited, but was given the old "were watching you" speech. Im planning on using my mountain bike to access areas while hunting this season... are mountain bikes legal on closed roads?

Make no mistake they will ticket you. They are enforcing similar though slightly more stringent rules in the Kaibab forest around Williams aleady.

Forest Service is on patrol, "looking for illegal wood cutters and shed hunters" <--- their words not mine. Just a reminder that they've closed many roads and they are watching.

Got my second choice. Unit 8 archery bull in November.

Wonder if the IT guy will stay late and get the site back up or if well have to wait till tomorrow?

same here... now its just the maintenance page again. Don't you just love this time of year?

Id say probably around the high teens to 20%, if you include the reservations. Alot of the units that have elk hunts are not necessarily all elk habitat (i.e. 16a,21,22,23). Thanks for the nice mental distraction for the draw fiasco.

I can easily see this President moving this forward just based on his utter disdain for the state of AZ and its people alone. Im going to have to read thru the doc a couple more times. But Ill be sending all my elected reps an email today and giving them a call on Monday.

As usual Bill is right on point.

I think the website shuts down at the top of every hour when we all race to get on and see if magically the results have been posted without our knowledge. Kinda like the fricken phone line which has been busy since the cards started getting hit.

Not closed. I checked.

Probably someone who's card was rejected...congrats! Thanks. All 5 of my choices were for the same unit so at least I know where Im going, just dont't know when or what.

I had posted a similar heads up in the shed hunting topic of this forum. And the FS officers are taking their job very seriously.

I got hit yesterday for 114... just when I thought it was over

"Coconino is changing their laws/rules soon and closing some roads to quads. I dont get why they bother if they cant even keep quads on the roads." IMO. The plan is just to struggle along attempting to save the forest from all the evil forest users. Then when they still have problems with folks going where they dont want them too they'll just close access completely. Which is what they want in the first place. In the mean time, Im headed out this morning to enjoy my National Forests and maybe the Good Lord will smile on me and Ill stumble upon an antler.

My intent was not to give a heads up to anyone participating in illegal activity, but merely as a reminder to my friends on CWT.com to be aware of what road you are on. Kaibab does have maps but I'm told they can only be obtained at the Williams office.