WampusCat

goatsie good timing I saw this one pop up while doing some reading today. I couldn't find what the COAL would be if I were using the 140's? would this or the WSM cycle in a 700 SA? I can't say as I have just been using 130's. Yes, they will cycle

This is what I would recommend too. The OP's bolt face wont work but that is an easy fix with a new PTG bolt from Midway. I have one waiting for me at the smith and I can hardly wait. Plus, factory brass will be available this fall from GAP.

TTT

CnS, I don't have a dog in the fight, but the one thing that always jumps out at me when these pictures and conversations come up is the way the outfitters and hunters are portrayed by their photos and how they are defended when questioned. Always talk about them (not just A3) not doing it for the glory...right after they slap those giant watermarks on any trophy pic ensuring the "glory" goes to the correct outfit who delivered on producing the trophy to the man with the cash. Or the first lines of a post or article "the team over at (insert outifiiter) have done it again". Then the defending of the paying guy, "oh this one is the real deal" as in he isn't the normal type of client? Whatever kind of "real deal" some of these hunters are described as will always be overshadowed by the fact that a large team (funded by large money) worked to make these kills happen. Not mad about it at all, just not as impressive. Another observation... We all (hopefully) have our primary source of income and I can't knock a guy for doing what he loves to earn a dollar. For me hunting is still something pure. Meaning that it's what I do to get away from people, work, and the world. When I see it commercialized to the extent of guys lining up with videos in hopes they will be paid and the potential buyer looking to see who can offer him the best trophy taints it a little for me (not right or wrong, just how I feel about it). At the end of the day here in America, we are all free to hunt in our prefered manner whithin the confines of the law and I'm ok with that. Its simple really, the DIY guy, whoever he is, or whatever amount of glory he seeks will earn more respect from the masses (or maybe just me) based off what he accomplished with the limited assets he has at his disposal. There is no denying these are magnificent animals! Incredible they are thriving on public land! They just lose their luster to me (and a couple other guys I heard) when you see/hear about the amounts of money that is offered up to "help" these guy kill. It's not hard to understand the bought vs. earned argument here. Certainly not implying anyone should seek the concurrence of the masses, or issuing excuses for anyone's opinion, just helping to explain the emotions and discussions that appear when these photos pop up.

Now thats hunting! Mind = blown How often does that actually happen? What's a typical finders fee?

I guess Litz put the pressure thing to rest for the most part. Although, he was using a standard .308 at pretty mellow (compared) velocities. I still wonder if the effects would be more pronounced with a longer, heavier, faster bullet. To what end, I don't know? The jackets holding in a faster twist is the issue (or whether its actually an issue at all with the 195s). Can't wait to see some range reports!

^ There you go! My only worry with an 8 twist is the pressure building early before velocity is where you want it. Some of the guys shooting 8s also had issues with the 180 gr jackets in rifles with the boiler room to make them scream. Don't know for sure if that will carry over to the 195s. We shall see soon enough.

I think it will at the speeds you can sling them. Higher elevation will also help. Those recomendations are given based off worst case scenarios. Slower speeds, cold weather, at sea level. If you do try them let us know how they work.

I have strong sentiments similar to yours Mulepack. When I look at the pics of big money hunters and their guides watermark pasted on the photo I can appreciate the magnitude of the animal and the work the guides put in to it (even if that is literally what they are paid to do). I appreciate it the same way a blue collar guy who can only afford a set of dual exhuast and an edelbrock carb for his small block chevy watches the supercharged, nitro burning rigs at the drag strip. He is not blown away by the skills of the driver, but envious of the level at which the drivers resources ($$$) allow him to play the game. Sure its an awesome animal, but much more congrats and respect is owed to the man religously scouring the countryside in search of his quarry, spending his weekends solving the riddle of the hills by the sweat of his brow and leather of his boots. IMHO Not knocking guides or their craft. We all have the right to hunt in a way that allows you to enjoy the outdoors to the fullest. The story just ins't nearly as interesting to me as the guy who put the puzzle together on his own or with a buddy. Different strokes... The fact that the big money paid for these tags directly benefits the conservation of the species is not lost on me. I think that is the best part of the tags and commend them for their donations. I do however wonder if that would matter either way to the guys signing the checks.

I remember in 2012 when they were "just about to release" these. Pretty awesome if they are ready now. I didn't expect the price to be that high.

The poll didn't mention whether or not you were shooting from a side by side or which broadheads you were using... J/K 100% comes down to individual ethics. 1,000 yds or 100 yds, taking a shot that you shouldn't (according to your ability) is the real issue here. We have all heard the apparent gun battles play out in the hills. Boom, boom, boom, pause for the reload.... boom, boom, short pause, boom. Respect the game you are chasing by being proficient with your weapon of choice at the distance you are comfortable with.

Good work! And thanks for representing the rest of us in a positive way.

TTT for the weekend

If you feel like reading about my experience with the 17 Hornet, here is the post. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/55202-17-hornet-for-a-calling-rifle/?do=findComment&comment=531265

I hope I didn't sound like I was aiming my comments at anyone either. Just wanted to say in general a guy could go crazy chasing down .3-.5 MOA at 1K thinking it was coriolis, when it could be a simpler problem to remedy.

Thanks Jim!

+1 on the Manners EH series. I had an EH-1 built the way I wanted and had to wait but I was gone so it didn't matter. You may check stocky's stocks to see if they have one ready to go that has what you want.

If a proven design is what you are after, I can highly recommend a CZ chambered in 17 Hornet over the 17WSM. Incedibly accurate and reloadable if you fancy that. I have found it to be plenty-o-medicine for my purposes as well. I posted about mine in the predator forum a while back.

That is not exactly accurate. (pun intended) Coriolis is pretty complicated when it comes to figuring exact displacement of a shot. For example... it has more of an effect near the equator than it would near a pole (North or South), a shot directly north or south will print substantially more movement then one fired directly east or west. Spin drift is more of a constant, but can change with altitude/air density. I feel when speaking about the vast majority of "long range shooters" .3 MOA deviation at ranges of or exceeding 1000 yds would be EXTREMELY hard to pin down to one culprit or eliminate. An even slightly canted scope or rifle could easily be responsible for 1/2 MOA deviation, not to mention the multitude of other factors like wind, mirage, air density, spin drift, etc, or a loose nut behind the trigger. If a guy controls what he can, and coriolis was the only thing unaccounted for then he will likely hit close enough in any hunting situation. I watch lots of long range hunting shots being made (youtube, DVDs, and TV) where coriolis is the least of the guys worries. I guess what I am trying to say is if you do your due diligence at the range and at the loading bench, coriolis will not effect anything but serious extreme range shooting. BIGBROWNS, Thanks for posting. I hope you get that last little bit worked out and put the hammer on a bear!

I will take $2300 $2200 for Swaro's only or $2600 $2550 for everything in pictures.

Interested as well.

TTT

Amazing what a different experience seeing those can be for different people at different times. Such a cool critter to stumble across until you are training at 29 Palms. You will loath the desert tortoise and the CA hippies who are paid to halt training and make a huge scene in the name of "science". Great pic and thanks for sharing. I've only ever seen one in the wild near Yuma.

Unfluted fan here. One thing is for sure, once you cut those flutes into it you can't put the material back. If you build a rifle and have it fluted before assembly, you will never know what kind of shooter the stick was prior to the cuts. In this case you will know because it's already assembled. The weight savings is negligible (talking a mere ounces) . The cooling ability of the increased surface area would also be hard to quantify with so many variables. They will look cool though.

All PMs returned. Deals in the works. Still for sale. Thanks for the interest!