208muley

I would try to explain but I'm sure you would have an argument for that as well based on a good percentage of your posts on this board. Good luck in the new year with any hunts you have!!!

22 for me. Funnest hunt of the year.

Saw a bunch of bucks acting pretty rutty this weekend. Scrapes, rubs, chasing does, lip curling, everything but breeding. I would say it is definatly getting started. The best bucks are still not with does but 80-90 inch bucks are. Biggest ones are still on the roam. Central az unit.

Thanks 4falls. Bmf, if all the gates to the OO ranch are still locked, and I believe they are, you can walk in still and be away from hunters pretty easy. But if the gates are unlocked, well that's another story.

Fair number of pigs. Most of the better hunting is off the Williamson valley road. If you hike into the country south of Picacho peak you will be away from hunters and into lots o piggies.

Of course now that you asked online and someone answered it may be a little crowded. Just saying.....

To those that don't like the way things are and I am one......... Get over it.....the azgfd is gonna do whatever they want with or without our input. Those that like the way things are don't have to do a thing and they will be spoon-fed the bs the dept gives them. They see legal animals and draw tags they are happy. Nothing will change their thinking and will support the dept. Those that want creative management to improve herd size and over all age structure it just not in the cards. The dept manages money and people....period... It is not the way it used to be but it is now. I have been to meetings, I have tried to speak up about issues I am concerned with. If what I say isn't part of their agenda or in agreement with their mindset it falls on deaf ears. This dept. is not a democracy where they work for us, it is a dictatorship where they tell us how it is gonna go and we should just be happy that we have an "opportunity" to hunt. This is how they manage: this came directly from a wm I know that is also a friend (campfires are very interesting at times) if they were to survey only 10 deer in a unit and 6 of them are bucks..... Tags will increase.... It's all about buck/doe bull/cow ratios. Overall population doesn't matter because they will never know the true number. A quote from him is one buck can breed 100 does... My question is what if that buck is a yearling buck? Is that healthy for the herd? I can go on for days on this subject but all I end up with is being more upset. I have never wanted the whole state to go to trophy management. I just want lots of animals out there with a healthy age class! Look at how some western states manage and use their benchmark. Colorado is a prime example of progressive and conservative management. When winter killed off a bunch, tags dropped dramatically! Conservative mgmt has helped to bring em back!! Drought, over harvest, predators, have decimated our herds over many years.....just like a bad winter did in Colorado in one year....... Will our dept make changes to protect OUR resource????? I doubt it... They need trucks and a buildings ferrets,wolves, frogs, spotted owls, goshawks, etc etc etc etc..... Rant over... Have fun out there!

Congrats on the red horn!!!

Wow! I think any lion any time is a feat! I killed a lion while on a deer hunt..Glassed it up, stalked it, shot it... Guess that means I suck as a hunter as I didn't hunt that lion exclusively with a hand call. Thank god I'm not trying to get your respect or your approval i just like to hunt! Good hunting.

wear orange! 10 is like 6a nowadays. Good luck and enjoy the hunt!

That's an understatement!!!! I have been waiting for my attack pants for over two months. I ordered the 145 t and long sleeve with a beanie. Just got my shirts. Still no pants or beanie. Pretty good clothing but crappy service during hunting season!

I recently picked up a kimber mountain accent in 280ai. While I am still learning to shoot at distance I can say I absolutly love this gun!!!! With factory nosler 140s I am getting .5 amo to 800 on sand bags. Recoil is mild and to shoot all day is actually fun. A buddy of mine has the same rifle he is hand loading w 168 vld and getting .25 moa to 1000. So I guess I am gonna start hand loading. With the 168s the rifle would be good for everything including moose but shots should be closer if I am reading the energy data correctly. Oh yea one more thing, the rifle only weighs 6.4 lbs so it's a dream to carry. Good luck on your quest it's fun and listen to the experienced guys on here, not me, there is some really helpful guys here!

Thanks for all the replies. I now have plenty of ideas to figure out.

Wampus are you saying google earth can be used offline? Like I said you have to speak sloooooooowly to me about puter stuff! Lol

Way to go!! Definatly not like the new generation of hunters that are out there!

White cloud gun smithing in Glendale. Floated and bedded mine very reasonable and only took a few days.

Off topic a little but I shoot a 280 ackley and love it. Very similar to a 7mm but doesn't hurt at all 20-30 shots latter. It's flat out accurate to 800 and at .4 moa 5 shot on avg with factory, yes factory, ammo I think it's good enough for me. Oh yea I didn't spend 5-7k to get the gun either. But, on topic, I would listen to anything 308nut says. Smart is an understatement. Just saying.

Lots o tags and not a lot of elk like there used to be. Walk off one of the three roads on perrins and you should do alright. North of Espee rd is best. Good luck and work hard as there is a reason the hunt averages only % 30 kill.

I'm offended by every single wimpy, spineless, whinny, crybaby with a stupid cause to bitch about and change some rules to to fit their little niche in life. But it falls on deaf ears cause I'm the wrong color and I'm male. If someone gets offended by paint or some stupid words or whatever else they can invent to get offended by then life has to be just miserable!!! Here's some advice..... Get over it and yourself! Grow a backbone and go live your life and quit trying to tell others how to live theirs! Rant over..... Thanks

The number one reason I love the oct hunt! Find him in July-sept he will be there come the hunt. Sure it's hot, buggy, and hunters are everywhere. The buck you want will hold tighter to his core making it a lot easier ( relatively speaking of course) to find him during the hunt. Of course I think everyone should just hunt nov and dec... Its cooler!

Great job and write up. If the tag gods are nice to me I will be doing the 7 day backpack hunt for Coues deer next year! Can't wait! Looks like you had a blast and some hard work! Cool deal.

Lots o little bucks near Williams. Check the pine juniper transition area. If you want a better buck get out in the cedars and glass brushy areas real hard.

Sorry about spelling or punctuation. I am not good on a keyboard. Lol

This is a subject that is gonna make me jump into the discussion. I can tell you that just complaining to complain about quality of our elk or name calling, either azgfd or each other, won't fix one thing! Solutions are! My dad always told me not to bitch about things unless you have a solution to bring to the table, so here is mine. First, for arguements sake, allow me to make some assumptions to help me prove my point. The exact numbers will very. Let's say there are three types of elk hunters, 33% cow hunter, 33% any bull hunters, and 33% trophy bull hunters. With that assumption trophy bull hunters are the minority, although very vocal! So they will never get their way for statewide elk management changes. However if trophy hunters focus there energy in the " trophy" units we MAY be sucessful. In discussions with some of my WM friends the bottom line in any management is bull/ cow ratios. Understand a bull is a bull in their minds wether it is a 4 pt or a 400". And with them killing cows like they are they also have to reduce bull numbers drastically to keep them within guidelines. Now let's use unit 10, they have averaged 1700 cow tags in that unit for years, and elk numbers show that! So in turn they raise bull tags, 600 late, 100 early, 200 archery. Now, 10 has the reputation for giants, so when guys draw the tag, no expense is spared to kill a big bull, read that, better gear, guides, teams of helpers etc making them way more efficent. So all the pressure is on the 350 bulls and the unit shows this result as there are far fewer big bulls than there was just 5 years ago. azgfd just wants dead bulls, period, but hunters want big ones in this unit. So here is my idea: with cow tags staying the same and let's say they still want 900 bull tags to kill the number of bulls to keep the numbers within guidelines, why don't we change the hunt structure to achive the same or better kill ratio. So instead of 200 arch, 100early, and 600 late, let's do 100 arch, 50 early, and 200 late. So where did the 550 tags go? Well let's start a jr bull hunt, with the same fees as the adults as it will be a "premium" elk hunt however it is limited to 5 pt or less and broke bulls don't count, or mayebe they do not sure on that one, right after the early bull adult hunt. My thought are that time would be great cause the rut is winding down and little bull get with the cows and bugle good and they are in accessible spots, not nasty canyons, and it is the same time most kids are on fall break. This will achieve a couple things. 1 azgfd won't lose any money, 2, they will get what they want which is dead bulls, a kid doesn't care if it is a spike or a giant they just want to shoot a bull their parents do, 3 trophy hunters get aw Hat they want too, less big bulls killed due to not all pressure is on big ones. Young 6pts make it thru to be big bulls! Post hunt results need to be looked at and tags for the next year need to be adjusted, also this jr bull hunt should probably be rotated between 3 units every year. Please understand all my thoughts I have not put on this thread due to I hate typing but that is the gist of my thinking. I would also ask that if you want to add your ideas or discuss this please be respectful to everyone including azgfd. I don't agree with a lot of the things they do but bashing them will get nowhere. What do you guys think and what of this idea needs to be changed? Thanks, Eric

He is licking his lips after snacking on some little neighborhood dogs and cats!