CouesFanatic

Time for some bait cameras with another one about 20 foot up a tree hidden real well.

YOU proved my point.....your 236 buck was inventoried.....so you knew it was in the area.....5 miles away is NOT that far....heck I can glass 1 mile in every direction easily from a good glassing point.....if I record a 236 inch deer then I have narrowed the unit down from 500 square miles down to maybe 10 square miles....a little more work and can eliminate about half that....bottom line is that the use of cameras on water holes is NOT fair chase...... WRONG. It wasn't narrowed down by the camera. It wasn't inventoried. You don't know how this hunt went down. The deer was found by one of the guides in person a few weeks before the hunt. They didn't realize they had the deer on camera till after the hunt. Go out and run cameras on the strip and you will see how tough it is. I don't know how much you run cameras but all the guys I've seen that are against it haven't done it enough to see exactly how difficult it is. And the guys who do run cameras pretty much all agree that it is fair chase. How many people showed up to the F&G Meeting against cameras? Boone and Crocket, Pope and Young, SCI, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, The Arizona Deer Association all agree it is fair chase. I run cameras year round, not on the strip. I have tons of animals on camera. The odds of the right animal being there during the hunt, during daylight hours with me being there and a tag in hand are slim. They just aren't that predictable.

You have every right to go put as many cameras up as they do. There are lots of hidden water sources with water in them. Lots of holes in rocks with water are around. Not all the deer are inventoried btw. My wife killed a 236 buck that the guides had 1 picture of in August at a tank 5 miles from where we killed it. Kind of a mystery deer. Have you hunted the strip? It sounds like you have a tag this year? The fact is that the strip is a money making machine for the state. If you don't want to play the game, try a different unit and hunt every year instead of waiting 20 years for a hunt.

This looks like a good 1 man tent: https://www.amazon.com/ALPS-Mountaineering-Lynx-1-Person-Tent/dp/B00BMKD1DU?ref=ast_p_ep No stakes needed for the tent, looks like the fly may need some. The Eureka Solo needs lots of stakes.

Where is all the pics?

I bought this charger: https://no.co/g750 I also have their battery jumpers I use as a backup for power.

179 watching

Tomorrow is the meeting. Last chance to get your word in on this: Jim Ammons, Chairman jammons@azgfd.gov Jim Zieler jzieler@azgfd.gov Eric Sparks esparks@azgfd.gov Kurt Davis kdavis@azgfd.gov Bill Brake bbrake@azgfd.gov

I'm not the legal beagle but from what I understand is that their laws apply to the animals or things related to harvesting animals and not the land. I'm trying to think of laws right now in my head that would apply. The state owns the animals even if they are on your land. Thats why the rules would seem to apply on private as well, but sounds like total garbage if you ask me.

The Game and Fish has no authority to do that. That would be up to the Forest Service or BLM.

Even with this, they can only ban cameras for the take of game. They have no authority to ban cameras from being there. Talk about opening a can of worms if this passes. Also, so its not fair chase in the alternative management units but it is fair chase in the other units? If that passes it's flat out proof this isn't about fair chase.

the article said his tailgate was down on the trailer

Got them. Thank you

Anyone have the last few harvest reports? Looking for 2015, 2016 and 2017. Thanks

Take it up with the A3 guy at the meeting. At least he's speaking up on the matter. And actually it's not a dumb comment. The game and fish said they have been talking about regulating the fish finders. The problem is the attack on what we can use as anglers and hunters. We need to stand our ground, you never know what they want to take next. You may or may not like cameras, but when it comes to something you like you will care.

Maybe because it's tough to glass. But in glassable country, if a picture of a big enough buck or bull is taken there is a dang good chance it's dead. And I think a lot of outfitters would tell you the same thing. The strip is very glassable country. My wife had a 13B tag in 2016 with MDA Outfitters. She killed a 236 buck that the guides had ONE picture of in August. They have hundreds of cameras out and they had ONE picture of a 236 inch 36 inch wide Giant Nontpyical. We were after different bucks from their cams which we never found. It's just not as easy as some guys make it seem. These guides chase the same bucks year after year. Listen to the recent podcasts on Jay Scotts page, they know cameras are helpful but its not a done deal once you get a pic, not even close. I know two guys that hunted with MDA on the strip last year that hunted the whole hunt and ended up killing 190 type bucks on the last day. It's not an easy hunt. In the MDA camp in 2016 3 out of the 6 tags killed a buck, A 236, a 224ish and a 180 something. Lots of guys hire the best guides and hunt the whole hunt waiting for a 200 plus inch buck and don't get it done.

If the bag limit on deer or elk was 10 a day, this argument would hold more water. Or if bass were much less common, weighed 1,000lbs and people spent a ton of money or waited many years to have the opportunity to catch one. Thats a great point. So the issue is the scarcity of the animal and not the fair chase issue. I just don't see any good logic why the NON-live cameras break fair chase. Trophyhunter, Thats a whole different thing on those tags but I'm with you on that one.

I'm not a big outfitter guy either, but you are able to put up many cameras just like they do. You could say the same thing about cameras, most guides let 99% of elk go. Yes I agree the rule will hurt their business. It will also hurt the auction tags and money going back into our tanks and projects.

You can sit at camp and wait till an animal shows then walk out and shoot lmao. I can't think of anything less fair chase. Nothing like trying to make a fish bite. Flying and shooting them out of a plane would be more work I am agreeing with you that live cameras are not fair chase. I believe the SD card cameras are fair chase.

I don't think its different at all. Both fish finders and live trail cams give real time info of location and size of the animal.

Just like the A3 guy last night said, A trail cam is much more fair chase than modern fish finders that can see the fish live and see your lure in their face. Why do we allow that and have an issue with non live cameras? It's because the fish still has to take the lure. Just because you have a picture of an animal on your camera, does not mean they will be there come hunting season, let alone shooting it. They do assist in taking animals, just like long range scope, turrets, rangefinders, compound bows, dial bow site etc. What makes the non live camera not fair chase? There is fair chase because the info is delayed. Live footage and pics breaks fair chase. JMO

Mr Davis and Mr Brake emailed me back already. Here are the emails again guys, if you need an email already written I will send you mine. Jim Ammons, Chairman jammons@azgfd.gov Jim Zieler jzieler@azgfd.gov Eric Sparks esparks@azgfd.gov Kurt Davis kdavis@azgfd.gov Bill Brake bbrake@azgfd.gov

Thank you twig snapper. Emails outbound.

I agree with you 100%. This is not about live cams. They have passed that already last meeting i believe. Pulling a SD card creates a delay. They delay negates the fair chase argument. If you have ran cameras enough, you know that getting a camera on camera and killing it in season are very different things.

BACK OFF!!! I liked that guy. Basically it was a bunch of people against the rule coming up with unenforceable ideas to a problem that only exists in the game and fish's mind due to complaints from other hunters. Things I learned/relearned from tonight. 1. There is no fair chase reason for this 2. Any rule I have seen thus far is not enforceable and will only cause more issues.